The Question: In your book, you describe a moment when your friend sat you down and said about your failing marriage, “You need to try everything you can to save it.” At what point does a friend sit their friend who is in a bad marriage down and say, “You need to do everything you can to get out of this marriage. Everything!” As you know, that would probably strain the friendship much more than saying the former. Thoughts?
My take: Before I started writing this blog, such conversations once filled me with apprehension. But, for the past few years, I’ve gotten used to answering emails from readers and responding to comments. I’ve also gotten used to nearly everyone I know in real life seeking my opinion whenever they are having relationship problems. This has taught me a two things about relationships that most people don’t necessarily know. They are:
1. When most people complain about their relationship, they exaggerate. They do this because they are looking for validation. They falsely believe that if they can convince you and others that they are right and their spouse is wrong, this will somehow help them to convince their spouse of this, too. Most people also usually don’t tell you when things are going great because that’s boring and no one wants to hear about a great relationship over wine or beer. As a result, this can create a skewed picture of their marriage and cause you to believe that it is much worse than it really is.
2. Most people fear change more than they dislike misery. No matter what you do or say, they will resist it and probably will not change until they are ready.
It’s important to keep this in mind when counseling your friends about their relationship problems. It’s for these reasons that ganging up and calling your friend’s spouse a jerk probably isn’t going to be helpful. It’s also for this reason that any sentence that starts with the words “you should…” is going to fall on deaf ears. What does work? Try what my friend Deb did with me that one night so many years ago when she artfully talked me into trying to save my marriage. It’s the same strategy I use today whenever someone comes to me for advice.
* Ask, “Why are you staying in this relationship?” This stops the validation cycle. You’ll find that as soon as you ask this question, your friend will stop the constant stream of negativity and quickly shift into, “Well, he’s not so bad.” It will be either that or she’ll talk about her fear of change or that she doesn’t know what to do. That will open the door for you to offer advice without feeling preachy and without making her uncomfortable.
* Ask, “What have you tried to save your marriage?” You can also ask, “What are you going to do about this?” Both questions nudge your friend toward problem solving and away from ranting. Another favorite of mine is this, “What do you want?”
* Mirror what you hear. Rather than tell your friend how terrible his or her spouse is, you might say things like, “The past 12 months, I’ve noticed that you have not been happy. I can’t remember anything positive that you’ve had to say about your relationship.”It’s especially important to do this if your friend backpedals and tells you that change will be worse than the current situation.
* Point out the options. When people are miserable, they feel stuck and think there are no solutions. That’s why I like to remind people, “You can continue to wait for him to change on his own, have nothing happen and stay as miserable as you’ve been. Or you can work on things and see what happens. Or you can leave. All of these options are difficult. Unfortunately, there is no easy solution that leads to instant happiness. But you already know that doing nothing is making you miserable. Why not try one of the other options?”
Readers: How do you counsel friends who are mired in bad relationships? What do you find makes your friends defensive? What brings you closer? What helps? What hurts?
Note: I forgot to pick the March Reader of the Month. To make it up to you all, I will pick two winners who comment on this post. You have until Wednesday at 9 am to leave a comment. Then I will randomly pick two winners to receive gift certificates to Eden Fantasys.
Important Updates
* I’m one of the featured networkers in the Brazen Careerist Word Nerd event Tuesday April 5th at 8 p.m. If you’d like to meet me over Skype, sign up! More information here.
* I will be doing a reading at Madame X in New York City on April 4th. THAT’S TONIGHT! I’d love to see some of you there. Here are the details.
* I wrote this post about How I Saved My Marriage for Women on the Fence. Please share it around.
{ 17 comments… read them below or add one }
I actually try to refrain from doing this….mostly because at this point in time, I feel my view of romance, love and relationships is quite skewed…and I fear offending those close to me with my opinions. However, I will share with you how two of my closest friends handled this very thing last year during my very troubled (and now pending divorce) marriage.
Make no mistake, the friends who offered me advice were/are very much aware of the state of my marriage….and knew that I was not exaggerating. Afraid of change…yes, absolutely. Friend one I have known for 8 years now and she also knows my husband. Friend two only met him in November…she was my son’s 8th grade English teacher and started attending our church last spring..so we knew each other but we only become close during this past fall as well.
How do you counsel friends who are mired in bad relationships?
Friend one is very open, and speaks her mind…with compassion, but pulls no punches. She told me last spring that I should send him packing. I didn’t, but now wish I had listened…she saw much that I did not. And she lives in another state. She also couples her advice with affirmations of how I didn’t/don’t deserve him, etc.
Friend two is also very open with her opinions, but would never ever tell me what I should do. She however, shared what SHE would do, were it her. She also suggested I read a book, which actually was one of the major turning points in my decision to divorce him.
What do you find makes your friends defensive?
At one point, Friend 2 told me what she thought of my husband. At the time, I told her that I didn’t feel that was very supportive of me and my decision to try to work through some recently discovered issues. She later apologized for not seeming to be supportive…but said that she could only tolerate so much mistreatment of the people close to her, and that is where her comment had come from.
What brings you closer?
Knowing that even if I make/made decisions that they don’t agree with or wouldn’t make, they support me regardless. It’s very comforting to know I have someone to go to and talk to even if their choices for me would be different.
What helps?
Again…knowing I can talk to them. Having someone to springboard ideas off of. Having someone “who’s been there” to some extent to offer insight. Being able to think through all aspects of whatever is going on so I don’t act in the moment and do or say things I might regret later.
What hurts?
with my friends…knowing I should have listened last year. Feeling like I take and take and at this point have very little to offer in return.
Alisa, I love your blog. I started reading it last year when I was trying to save my marriage. I still read it, simply because even though I might doubt I will ever be ready to be married again, I realize I may well be.
Michelle
Michelle´s last [type] ..General Conference RecapMy Thoughts
I don’t counsel friends since I know that when it’s me, I prefer understanding and support regardless of my decision. So I just try to show understanding and compassion. That being said, it is hard sometimes to step back and realize that a friend is mired in negativity and to not believe everything they are saying is wrong with their relationship.
Of course, right now it’s me in the bad relationship, and I am really sick of my friends saying save the marriage at all costs, forgive him even though he cheated, divorce isn’t an option, etc. and all of his friends saying leave her and do what makes you happy, when in reality, if it were them living it, they wouldn’t be so quick to make huge decisions that affect so many lives.
I recently went through some marriage trouble. I sought the advice of every friend I knew and even people I didn’t know too well. I thought that the NEXT person I spoke to would be the person with the perfect advice, which would give me an “aha” moment. I ended up getting separated from my husband. You know what? As soon as the separation happened, not a single soul was in sight. Not a single person was there to talk. Not even my family. Now that all the talking was done and the actions had taken place, not a single person knew what to say. It just goes to show you that at the end of the day, your friends can and will only take you so far. After that, you’re on your own. I’m finding it best to work out issues without public involvement more recently.
I also have a friend that constantly solicitates advice from me regarding her relationships, but then quickly dismisses all advice I have to give. I’ve decided to just be there to help her talk through it instead of offering any real advice. That’s all people really want usually, right? A sounding board or a listener.
I guess as far as counseling friends goes, maybe it’s best to ask the particular person what they are actually looking for – advice, venting, etc. If not, it can backfire at times.
That said, I really like the idea of providing options for solving the problem. It’s hard to see those options when you’re the one experiencing the heartache.
Wow you totally sound like a life coach here! You should look into that!
This is such great advice!
Alisa, I recently read your book and really found it insightful. I have to say #2 in this blog is what my excuse has been about not leaving for the past year even though I have looked at apartments on a few occasions and have made lists of what I would take when I move out. My friends/family think I should just leave, however, I do want to make every attempt to work on my marriage like you did. It has taken alot of learning about myself and why I have certain beliefs about how things “should” be which puts alot of stress and anxiety on me. My biggest problem is letting go of past disappointments, arguments and incidents in my marriage. How did you do it?
Jen
Alisa, Great advice, came at the right time! I have a friend who has been in a very sad relationship for too many years and I didn’t fully understand why she stays. I wasn’t sure how to help other than listen. I do have a question, I would like to lend her my copy of Project Happily Ever After but I don’t really know how to bring it up? She is fairly reserved and I worry it may embarrass her if I offer my marriage books.
ps- I really liked the chapter titles, made me smile.
I know from experience also last year when my marriage was on the rocks, I sought advice from family mostly and honestly when anyone says anything about my hubby I instantly go to his defense and get mad. I usually just want someone to listen, no advice unless it is helpful some how. My oldest daughter who is now married knows she can come to me and I will listen and try to guide her with good advice whether she takes it or not. I do not hold a grudge against her husband because I know she is just venting. It is what we all need to do sometime. It doesn’t always mean that we want to leave our marriage, we just want to complain. I also go to counseling and have been going for a year now. I like being able to vent. I also write down all my negative feelings and then reread to see if I am the one really being unreasonable. LOL Usually my thoughts are exaggerated. So I am glad that I don’t just spout them out to everybody. Also sometimes when you tell too many people you know all your problems it makes it hard when the times are good for these people who now know your business to let go of it, which is why try to stay positive about my husband to my friends and family and leave the ugly stuff for counseling besides that is what she is getting paid for.LOL!
Hey Alisa,
First I want to say that I’ll be at the Brazen event (one of the other writers).
Then I wanted to add that I think the probing questions you mention are key. It’s important to put aside the momentary “fun” of pummeling on the spouse to evaluate what’s true and whats … exaggerated. I particularly love the question “Why are you staying in this relationship?”
My father gave me some good advice a while ago. He and my mother have been happily married for over 20 years, and he told me that relationships have natural ups and downs. The important thing is making sure the ups measure the downs. I think everyone has patches where they feel distant from their Significant Other, but the key is to evaluate why you’re staying–is it something that will pass? If so, what can you do to make that happen sooner? Is it truly so bad you don’t think it’s going to get better?
I think, as you mention, a lot of people get caught up in focusing on the initial pain and, while they might be miserable, they know it’ll take a lot of work to change that. They’re not willing to undergo the pain and hard work unless they are more than just unhappy.
Melissa´s last [type] ..Calling All Word Nerds!
I love this advice. I tend to complain to my friend about my marriage but she does the same. She even had suspicions that her husband was seeing men, I tried my best to not make any negative remarks about him or her marriage but stuck with asking questions and admitting that it did seem like but that there were other possibilities. She on the other hand started saying things like when are you going to leave him, there are other fish in the sea, and I should have never married him in the first place. I realize that I must of been complaining too much. I know comparing marriages is like apples and oranges, but I dont think theirs is any better than mine and maybe worse off, but how can you take someones hope and just throw it out the door.
To my surprise I realised that we will be married 25 years on 22 June 2011. How many times was I desperate and thought that divorce was the only option!
My sister told me when newly married- don’t complain about your husband with your sisters or friends. The two of you would make up for a long time then your sisters and friends still resent him. Complain about him to his mother (who know and love him anyway- I found lots of sympathy from his mother- but not all MIL are as wonderful as mine was) or to his sisters.
I also find that to concentrate on other things and doing things you love also help. One do tend to exaggerate and a lot of negative thinking breed more negative thinking. It also help to think back at the times you were falling in love and to realise that that same wonderful person are still there- somewhere.
Obviously none of this is true in case of a wife beater- you should leave after the first insident! (or beat him up in his sleep- do not know if this is sound advice, heard once that it prevent any further beatings)
Marié´s last [type] ..I am a Stripper
I agree with waht you say about how they will change when they want to and exaggerate what is really going on in the relationship to get validation. I’ve been through a divorce myself and only i could decide if it was the best thing to do but thankfully i did have support from my family becasue it was an abusive relationship and now my parents are going through a divorce and it’s been hard for me not to get involved but they have to decide if it’s the best thing for them. This was a great post though. Keep them coming
Yet another ROCKIN post Alisa!!! Spot on advice as well. It was funny you would post this now. VERY recently a lady friend from Church & I were talking & she mentioned how several friends come to her asking for advice. Then when she gives it they just ignore what she says anyway. Not in action so much as just seem to tune her out.
I told her the reason probably is because it isn’t advice they really want. It is for somebody to validate their felling, opinion or stance on a given matter. No matter how wrong or whacky they may be on something they are looking for somebody to say, “yea your right”. Anything that disagrees with that position is ignored anyway. So it can be a real trap for the person stating their opinion.
Another thing I would warn the writer of this question on is this. Be VERY careful about what you say about the husband. Alisa is right in that you don’t know how much they have exagerated. Even if they haven’t this could be a BAD position to put yourself in. There is a good chance that the couple will make up. All the wife will remember about your conversation is all the things you told her that make her husband a bad spouse. She will become defensive of the man she loves & will likely break contact with you.
Think of it this way. If your friend were to bash your husband for any reason how do you think this would effect your friendship with her? No matter how unreasonable somebodies husband/wife can be, the offended spouse will be defensive when it comes to their husband/wife. If it were a case of abuse or presented a real danger to the wife it is different. Other matters are just best to say “As your friend I will be there no matter what the outcome”.
Thanks for Posting this Alisa,
YOU ROCK
Ron
Melissa and Dez: You won reader of the month with your comments on this post! I’ll be in touch by email with the Eden Gift codes. Enjoy!!
My very best friend is engaged to be married to a wonderful man, I am just divorced.
We were talking yesterday about her fears about marriage and were discussing why hers would most likely work out, and why mine did not.
We came to this conclusion:
She and her fiancee are best friends, besides me, her man is her best friend and they look forward to spending time together. Unforunately, I did not always make my now ex-husband my best friend.
The other thing that helps is that I have never taken my best friend’s side entirely on the rare occasion she does vent to me. I will always play devil’s advocate.
Of course, if she is right, I’ll take her side, but if I know damn good and well she’s wrong, I’ll tell her. She said that she appreciates that and sometimes, comes to me with a situation, even though she knows I’ll take her fiancee’s side because she needs to know she’s not right sometimes.
Another thing I noted is that I don’t know a lot about their relationship. I catch bits and pieces of it, but overall, she knew WAY more about my relationship/marriage than I do hers, and I think that’s one of the reasons it works. In fact, it’s a lesson I intend to remember the next time I get involved with someone.
I think venting to a good friend about marital problems IS easy to do, and most of the time, quite okay to do. We ALL need an outlet. We ALL need someone to talk to and express ourselves with, especially women.
The bad thing is when we are saying more negative about our spouses than positive. If we can’t say one nice thing about our spouse, it’s either that we’re too self-absorbed to really look at the situation; our spouse is really clinically crazy or outright un-healthy; or it’s time to leave. I know that sounds harsh, and I don’t mean for it too, but overall, we should work hard to perceive our spouses, and ourselves, in the best light possible. And yes, it can be quite the challenge sometimes.
Even in the worst times of my marriage, I kept looking for little nice things he did. Granted, the nice and good paled in comparison with the bad and difficult, but still, it WAS there. He wasn’t then, and isn’t now, a rotten human being. It is so much easier to place blame where most of the time, it doesn’t belong.
Now that he and I aren’t married anymore, people are surprised to hear me talk highly of him. As if, you’re “supposed” to constantly bash your ex-husband or something. Personally, I have no interest in doing that. It robs me of my energy and trust me, he doesn’t care what I think of him. So, really, it’s just a matter of taking the high road. If someone asks me directly about something with my ex, I’ll be truthful, because the truth of it is, a lot of our marriage wasn’t great. But, I made a promise to myself to conduct myself in a manner that I can look back on and be proud of. I made that promise to myself before I decided to divorce; so even I had stayed married, I would’ve wanted to conduct myself, and my marriage, in a way I could look back on and be proud of. It’s really about personal accountability.
These days, it is my goal to never be outright negative or hurtful on the rare occasion I do speak about my ex. It’s just not worth it.
I think the best way to help a friend in a martial struggle, or full-blown crisis is just to LISTEN.
I know for me, my friends’ willingness to listen is what helped me eventually leave. I’m not saying my friends encouraged me to leave, but knowing that I had a strong support system in place helped A LOT.
My friends also didn’t take my side all the time, they too forced me to REALLY consider my decision. They forced me to look at myself, woman up to my own crap and look at everything from different angles. That was tremendously helpful.
It is true that no choice is easy; getting married, staying married or leaving. It is difficult either way, but for me, it was this: “what is LESS difficult?” For some, that means staying married. And I still believe in marriage with all of my heart! For some, like me, that means leaving.
I don’t advocate divorce, and as I’ve said before, it wasn’t until I knew I had tried EVERYTHING that I could leave.
Alisa’s friend, Deb, was absolutely correct; TRY EVERYTHING! Alisa is correct, work on YOURSELF. Because the truth is, you’ll be working on yourself for the rest of your life–with, or without, a partner.
This was a terrific post, and I’m so glad Alisa shared this! Oh, and congrats to Melissa & Drez being readers of the month–congrats!
Many Blessings,
-Sarah Liz
Pink Kitchen — you are so right! Sometimes I just want to vent and sometimes I want validation that a situation really isn’t as bad as I’ve just made it out to be. And sometimes, if it really is that bad and I’m paralyzed with indecision, I may simply want ideas so that I can decide what to do for myself.
It might be helpful to my friends if I know what I need/want from them before unleasing on them. And who among us doesn’t want to help a loved one?