A Biggest Marital Problems Post
The question: Are sexual emails cheating? Is putting a personal ad on Craigslist cheating? In my eyes it is. In his eyes it was harmless fun. Obviously I am still stinging from this hurt. When is enough enough?
My answer: A study was released today that found Facebook contributes to 1 in 5 divorces. This is misleading, though. Basically cheaters are having an easier time trolling for partners thanks to Internet social sites like Facebook. Facebook isn’t turning normally monogamous people into cheaters. Cheaters are using Facebook to their advantage.
And they are using Craigslist, too.
I’ve written before that arguing about what constitutes cheating is folly. (See “He thinks strip clubs aren’t cheating,” a reader poll about cheating, and “How do you define cheating?”) You can just go around in circles with you yelling “Yes, it’s cheating!” and him yelling “No, it’s not cheating” more and more loudly. That sort of argument never reaches a resolution, especially with someone who is bent on not changing his ways.
What matters is that you are hurt. It doesn’t matter whether you call this behavior cheating.
Just for the record, however, I agree. It’s cheating. There are different kinds of cheaters, and it’s important to know what kind of a cheater your husband is. That knowledge will help you to make your decision. There’s a difference between a once-in-a-lifetime affair and a serial cheater. The person who has the once-in-a-lifetime affair often succumbs to a moment of weakness (or several) and feels incredibly guilty about it—even as the sexual act is being consummated. This type of spouse might be worth keeping around, assuming you think you can find a way to forgive the transgression.
I have a feeling, however, that your spouse is a serial cheater. Because I shortened your question some, I want to alert PHEA readers of important details that led me to this conclusion. Readers: This is a married couple with a blended family that includes a nest of kids and chronic health problems. This is not a couple where free time comes in bulk.
Okay, back to answering the question. It takes some time to put an ad on Craigslist. That means putting an ad on Craigslist was a priority for your husband. He took time away from something else in order to do it. That not harmless fun. That’s serious.
But you already know that.
I’d love to give you magical advice that will transform your husband into someone who is good at commitment. If that advice exists, I don’t know what it is. Perhaps another reader here does. I don’t think your husband will change. He might for a month or two. Eventually, however, I think you will find that he’s been sneaking around behind your back again.
You asked, “When is enough enough?” What you are really asking me isn’t whether his behavior is acceptable or not. After all, it doesn’t matter if I would put up with it. What matters is whether YOU will put up with it.
You have four choices. You can choose to find a way to be happy with a man who cheats. Or you can find a way to be happy without him. Or you can choose to be miserable with a man who cheats. Or you can choose to be miserable without him.
I can’t make the choice for you. Only you can do that.
Readers? Can you offer guidance? Have you ever been in a similar situation? What did you do? What advice do you have to offer?
UPDATES
- I’ve finally reinstated the Reader of the Month Award. You are eligible to win this award if you become one of the top commenters of the month. You can check your progress on the widget to the right. Eden Fantasys has graciously offered to sponsor this award with a $30 and a $20 gift certificate. This month’s winners were Dummer Guy (first place) and Maureen (second place). Congrats! I’ll be in touch to show you how to redeem your prize.
- Catie O’Neal is a graduate student at the University of Georgia who is studying marriage. She has a 30-to 40 minute survey that she would like you to fill out if 1) you are married 2) you are between the ages of 20 and 32. If that describes you, consider it a good deed and go fill out her survey.
- Masters in Psychology picked PHEA.com as one of the top 25 relationships blogs.
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Lisa, I know I posted my blog a million times here, but I’m writing a lot on the subject right now. My boyfriend hasn’t cheated – at least not that I know of – but he’s created a lot of jealousy issues for me. Actually not even jealousy but affected my self-esteem-
What I’m finding through the writing I’m doing is that healing has to come from ME – I have old issues with self-esteem, and they are offering themselves up (these wounds) for healing now. I can’t wait for him to do things to make me feel better – I have to feel better about me. And what I’ve been doing the last five days (dramatically changing my behavior/reactions/internal responses) is getting such a better response from him and strengthening our connection again …
There’s also a Web site I’ve been spending a lot of time on called Narcissism Cured, I think – really helpful videos and ebooks.
Bodhima´s last [type] ..Day 6- Happy
Good evening all….
Lisa and Maureen: I think definition is important. Definition allows one to say exactly what went wrong. Definition prevents an offending partner from saying “it is nothing. It is all in your head.”
Bodhima: You are correct that healing must come from within. However, ceasing injury must come from the source of the injury. Part of the healing does not have to be acceptance of a repeated injury as your own problem.
Good night everyone.
RavSean
Wow sorry I missed all of this while I was moving. VERY interesting discussion & topic. It isn’t something I have personally dealt with but have had a few friends who have. It is amazing how the internet has been the catalyst for more cheating (emotional or physical). I have read one story after another about affairs that started on facebook & other social websites. I agree with Alisa in that if they are going to cheat they will. The websites have just made it easier to do so. The serial cheaters have always been there & now they have access to do so with greater ease.
I do keep a facebook page. When I first joined it was really cool to see people (men & women) I haven’t seen or heard from in 30years. I probably do have more female than male friends. But that is only because I have come across more women than men that I knew growing up. Most of my circle are people I went to school with. I now live 600mi from where I grew up so I just lost touch.
I did learn quickly though that you have to be careful. There was only one incident where a female friend from high school was just slightly flirtatious. I let her know in quick order I am happily married & haven’t had a problem since. Also my wife well knows the little communication I have had & is more than welcome to read anything. Would be boring reading though..lol It is mostly just catching up on life, kids, (now grandkids) careers etc. Now that I know how everybody is doing in life I don’t go on there much anymore. But I did throughly enjoy talking to all the people I hadn’t seen in so many years.
Maybe we could just put in place a few simple rules that would help:
(1) Going on FB or any other site to do ANYTHING you wouldn’t want your spouse to know about is wrong. If you wouldn’t want them to read it, don’t write it..lol
(2) If it can emotionally hurt your spouse, it is wrong.
(3)Doing something that can even lead to an affair, physical or emotional is wrong. People get hurt & families can be destroyed. No good can come from that.
(4) Posting or saying ANYTHING that is demeaning, a put down, portrays your spouse in ANY negative manner is wrong. It can send a message rightly or wrongly that you are available or unhappy.
We could write rules all day but I guess a good rule of thumb is if it can be harmful or hurtful to the spouse we love & have commited ourselves to for a LIFETIME then we shouldn’t do it. Alisa’s post on the hidden camera marriage would be a great read on this.
Thanks Alisa & Everybody for a great post & an interesting discussion.
Keep On Rockin
Ron
Please allow me to tell you what happened to me regarding the internet and my boyfriend. First of all, we met on line about a year ago. He was on a online dating website. We wrote to each other, he friended me on facebook. We kept in casual contact from facebook and our emails. I never went back to that dating site, which was porngraphic in nature. I never needed to, I dated nice men in my area. I always kept in contact with this man that I met on that site though. We developed an amazing long distance relationship. He spoke to me of love and this sounded so real, so genuine, a happily ever after type of ending. My friends were skepitcal and concerned because I am so trusting and i just
believed him. It sounded almost too good to be true. I thought he was so wonderful, and so amazing. He said i was his life partner, his girlfriend, would be his wife one day, his love. I honestly believed I would love him, as my life partner. My friends informed me he was still on that dating site, it was porn. He had 14 women on his friends list, and he was on that site 2-3x a day. I tried to ask him about it on three seperate times, but every time, I just got all emotional and could not. I just cried, and cried alone. There was no way, I could bring myself to ask him, without sounding like a crazy jealous girlfriend. I have never had a man not want to be with me, or cheat on me. I am a good girl. I believe in karma, and in a relationship. the rules that two people set up, i abide by our rules. He asked for a monagamous relationship. He did not want me to contact any old boyfriends, and I honored his request. I assumed he did the same thing. he told me he only had eyes for me. I am beautiful, educated, come from a family of means, and my life is set in proper order, as was his. His cyber relationship bothered me so bad, that it ruined our relationship completely.
I would up deleting him, blocking him, and terminating all communication with him, simply because as the days went by, my heart began to rip and tear apart. I thought this was not fair to him, because I never directly spoke to him about his cyber relationships with these women. So I wrote him a letter. I also emailed him, and he eventually responded. He said he was mentoring them? He said online was NOT cheating. he defined cheating as touching, kissing, and having sex. he said he was in his home on the computer, so none of that was cheating. It still broke my heart, and it still hurt, and I no longer wanted to be with a man who did that. I do not really understand what he meant by mentoring them either? My father would be sorely displeased, as would be my family. This is an embarrising situation, and it reaks of white trash, Jerry Springer daytime drama. I do not want my man perousing on a porn dating site, when he could have me, all of my attention, adoration, and affection. There is really no acceptable reason, for such behavior. I hope what he has found with those women was worth what he lost with me. I am an amazing and beautiful person, internally more so then my external appearance. Based on what my friends showed me, those women were pornographic, sexual, not wearing clothes, just ropes and various bondage devices, your basic D+s type of porn. (All of those things in the privacy of our behind closed door, “private’ life, were completely things that we both fancied). I do not understand why he would choose the skank, over a woman of proper education and upbringing. I was 100% faithful to him. Our relationship has deteriorated. I will never know what his thinking or reasoning was, with his cyber relationships. I just know that what he did, hurt me. I simply said that I felt like he deceived me, this was shady, and it caused my heart pain. I would never dream of compromising our relationship by having a cyber sexual fling with anyone. So, I have no closure, of this situation. My only conclusion is that if a relationship hurts more then it feels good, then that is due cause to exit. I would rather have a date with my dignity, then to get lost in a shitty relationship. I even starting to second guess, why would he ever do such a thing? Trust is the foundation to building a great and ,wonderful relationship. Two people meeting each others needs sexually, it should be fun, a safe place where no one gets hurt, an easy coming together, and a mutual respect, where we both would never dream of doing something that would cause the other hurt or pain. My love story had a sad ending. I am alone, and I cry, I miss him. I was concerned if I would have stayed with him, I would have resented his cyber relationships, and perhaps ripped out his esophagus. (joke, that was a joke…)
So, good luck to all you who rationalize reasons for this behavior. My solution was simple, I may have loved him, but I love myself more. It hurts, but doing what is write, in my heart, is not the same as doing what is easy. I believe I made the right call. I think we shall know the truth, the truth will set us free, but first, it is going to piss us off! He has his cyber sex playmates to distract him from the fact, that he lost a very fine, loving kind and genuine woman. Some people go their whole lives and never connect in such a way that I believed we did. Well, maybe I recognized the potential for us to build an amazing relationship. He may have only seen the amazing view, of my very pretty ass, as I walked away. Love should not be that difficult. Thank you for reading about my unfortunate situation with cyber cheating.
Hi all. Hi Michele.
You are correct. He deceived you, at least twice. He told you that he only had eyes for you. Clearly, that was not true. He also told you that cyber-cheating is not cheating, as there is no physical contact. Intimate contact is only the cherry on the adulterous cake. Again, remember that the primary organ for intimate contact is the brain. His was clearly engaged well beyond where it should have been.
You were duped. Being beautiful and educated is neither prevention nor cure for such an emotional assault.
-RavSean
I would like to make a comment about the fact that i’ve been dealing with this for 12 years and still have yet to understand my husbands problem. He even advertised himself on the internet and yet he will tell me he has only one love and that is me! Whatever…How can you believe someone who tells you one thing to your face and then the minute you leave he is on the internet looking up chicks. He pays alot of attention to me and always has but that just makes me sick. I am not those people on the internet and what you see is not what you will get at home. So much of that stuff is not what normal people want and surely dont want it brought into your home. I cannot trust my husband and don’t know if I ever will.
Hi all…
Judy – At least you have understood that it is his problem. He is the one who is looking outside for what he already has. If you cannot trust your husband, the remainder of your marriage will suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.
Just for the record folks, all those people seen on the internet are not the same ones seen at home. Everyone has blemishes. Even the ones who advertise as ready, willing, and available have nights when they have headaches, and are actually not interested in getting it on in the car while waiting for the traffic light to change.
I do not believe in staying in a marriage that has had its foundation irreparably eroded. No one is required to be miserable for the sake of the wedding ring or for the sake of the children. Misery and irreparability are most certainly appropriate ingredients for considering a significant life change.
the problem I have is that alot of people seem to say that if he is paying attention to you just as much as he always has then whats the problem? Am I that selfish that I want a totally devoted husband that has eyes for only me and only me? Why do I feel all the pain and why do I feel dirty? I didn’t do anything wrong…Its a constant gut wrenching feeling of uncertainty that no-one should ever have to go through and it has nothing to do with not giving you spouse any attention. He has been doing this since the day we got married, I just didn’t know it.
Oh boy, Judy… listening to others on this may *not* be the way to go. And I don’t think it has anything to do with selfishness.
I had some trouble asking for what I need and having boundaries, and I’m learning to do it more now. And it’s hard, but it feels good as much as it can feel threatening (will he leave if *I* ask for what *I* need?) and what would it look like to get what I need? What would that say about me?
Here’s an example:
What it would say about me is not that I’m selfish, but that I appreciate myself and care about myself and that I respect me. Know what that does? The minute I start valuing ME and respecting ME so does everyone else around me. The ones who don’t? They go. And I don’t need them.
You might work a little on letting go of your attachment to what you think *should* happen and try practicing some good boundaries by simply saying to your husband, “you know, that makes me really uncomfortable and I have a tough time trusting you when you do … a, b, c.” And if he comes back with some excuse, reason, or anything that doesn’t honor and acknowledge that boundary, keep at it. Let him know just where you stand.
Bodhima´s last [type] ..Ten Days
Judy – Bodhima is right on this one. Your husband’s actions must always work to build trust. To leave you constantly guessing is simply unreasonable. Lay it on the line. “When you advertise yourself to others, you undercut my reasons to trust you. I do not like that.” If he is unwilling to stop, it means that having your trust is not important. Then you have to ask other questions.
If nothing else, stating it clearly, openly, and as often as necessary, will help you not to see yourself as dirty (sullied by the transgressions of another).
Hello to everyone!
RavSean, thank you for what you said in responce to my letter. This cyber cheating really caught me by suprise, and you are correct, I was duped. It was emotional assault. There is no one who deserves to be hurt, by their SO’s actions, and how we look, or how we act, will not dictact or prevent further hurts from happening. This behavior is what “he” chooses to do, (him as in, my situation, he did the cyber cheating). The internet can be an addicting, alluring, and full of promises that can cause someone to go ary. Its that proverbial trick, of the grass being greener, on the other side. After reading all of these amazing posts, I have learned much. You are all very wonderful, and this has been very healing for me. I conclude this syber cheating is a boundry issue, that I have to decide if I will tolerate a man who is capeable of such rationalization? Since I have behaved and acted faaithful, I assumed he would, as well. People do not change. Doing something 7x is a habit. Me allowing him to do this 7x, and for me to be hurt, then that pattern has been established as well. Leaving the relationship was the best for my situation, he will always do what he has always done. So, its been a while since I wrote my first post. Our break up was hard on me, I spent a lot of time alone, reflecting. I am sure he spent a lot of time on his internet with his women, eventually I got to the point, where I didn’t care anymore. About a week ago, out of the blue, he called me. We talked about everything. I was finially able to tell him, that I didn’t care, what he did didn’t matter anymore. We only get hurt, when we allow ourselves to get hurt, when our heart is open to that person. I have learned a few valuable lessons from this love, and his love of the internet. this is a great group, and I look forward to reading more posts, in the days to follow. Best wishes to everyone!
Good morning all.
I have a sermon to write and a weekly e-mail to send to my congregation within the next 75 minutes. Naturally, I am here instead.
Michele – doing something once is a mistake. Doing something seven times is a habit. You are exactly right. We do not have to tolerate habits that hurt. I am happy for you that you were able to find the inner strength to say ‘enough.’ That is not easy. May that inner strength carry you through the hurt.
RavSean
Michele…I envy you in that you put a stop to your hurt and you should feel proud to have finally stopped letting him hurt you because I am afraid that I have been hurt so many times that I’m numb to the hurt. I have just pulled away and have decided that the only person aim going to take care of is me and my son and if he decides to straighten up and give me the answers I need when I need them and they all keep turning out legit then in baby steps we might be able to get back on track but my gut tells me he will play the part but go back. It’s really terrible to know that you have spent precious time dealing with these kind of issues instead of enjoying life with the person youthought you were with or married too.
I have recently discovered that Craigslits personal ad and casual encounter ad were being looked at on my husband’s computer. I knew that they had been clicked on because they canged from blue to purple. I don’t know if he has been answering any ads or not. This discovery is still in the early stages. I do know that he has been visiting sites on how to deal with porn and sexual addictions. When I asked him about it, he said that I am the only one and that there is nothing to worry about. He said that he had been hacked. Why would someone hack your computer to look at Craigslist. I don’t buy it. Since I asked him about it, he has been very lovie dubbie. I asked him why all of a sudden he is being like this since the past several weeks he has seemed distant. When we were on vacation, he jumped at every chance to bite my head off. I am still in the beginning stages of dealing with this and don’t really know what my next steps will be. We have two children and have been married for almost 17 years.
My husband was having a cyber sex relationship with a woman he met in Farm ville on Face book . Of coarse she lived in Connecticut, so there was no actual physical contact. But they were on video watching each other masturbate and sending naked pictures to each other. I found text messages on his phone with I love you and I love you too. He had told her he was getting divorced and when he did he would come and marry her. All of this was for the sex. He never had any intention of being with her. But he asked her to marry him and sent a 10.00 ring to her because she wanted a commitment from him to continue the sex. How is that for betrayal and I flat out asked him the month before if he was chating with anyone Lies Lies Lies
Hello everyone,
My name is Patrick Hartz and I’m a producer for True Entertainment in New York. We are currently producing a series for OWN that explores infidelity among couples.
I’m very interested in hearing from any couples who have experienced infidelity and have been able to stay married and work past it. I’m also looking to speak with couples who have divorced as a result, but have been able to remain on decent terms.
Please feel free to email me at Hartz@TrueEntertainment.net for more details and a link to a full episode of the show.
Thank you,
Patrick Hartz
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