The Question: We had a baby a year and a half ago and I had some postpartum depression. It was a very hard year for us, and at some point my partner checked out. He took up welding as a hobby and now it’s all he wants to do. He contacted an old ex of his who he was in love with and chats with her (though she’s involved with someone). And he admitted (when I asked him) that he looks at porn. He stopped initiating sex about six months ago. Our therapist is doing a crappy job at holding him accountable for things, so I’m hoping we can switch to someone new. He says he wants to be with me, but his actions don’t match his words. He pays for therapy and initiated sex once or twice in the last couple weeks and now that he sees I’m serious about leaving, he seems like he’s perking up. But I don’t know if it’s enough for me to stay invested. There’s a lot of hurt and resentment between us. I’m 39 and the prospects of going out there in the world with my daughter and finding someone new are a little daunting. Do I stay or do I go? Does anyone have success stories about staying with someone who checked out and getting them to come back around?
My take: My take is going to be short today because I have a cold and can’t think straight. I’m hoping you all can pick up the slack. At any rate, when I first read this, I found it quite troubling that he had contacted an ex girlfriend. If I found out my husband did something like that, I’m not sure where things would stand with us. I’m not saying that I would leave him over it. I’m just saying that I hope I never find out that he’s done something like.
Okay, so that said, when the mind goes negative, it tries to wallow there. As it attempts to do that, it causes you to fixate on and–in some cases–exaggerate all of the negative evidence in front of you as it simultaneously causes you to overlook the positive evidence. One way to help yourself see things clearly would be to make four lists. One list would be all of the reasons you don’t think you can stay married to your husband. Another would list all of his good qualities. Spend a long time thinking about that list because your initial reaction is going to be, “What good qualities?” He has some. You’ve grown so used to them that you take them for granted. A third list might be all of the good reasons for divorce. A fourth list might be all of the negative consequences of divorce. For instance, most people see only the positives of divorce when they are contemplating it. I know I did. Make sure you accurately weigh those with the very real negatives: financial problems, having to do everything on your own (especially the chores he usually does), the possibility of him dropping out of your daughter’s life, and so on.
All of that said, I doubt these lists are going to help you make your decision. I’m not sure why I suggested them. I have a cold. Remember that.
The only way to know if you have something worth saving is to try to save it and see what happens. It sounds as if your partner is a lot like my husband. When something makes him uncomfortable, he hides through escapist activities. When my husband is avoiding conflict with me, he stays out at night and doesn’t come home until he’s pretty sure I’m asleep. In order to work things out with him, I had to find a way to confront him without him realizing I was doing it. Easier said than done, I know.
I hope that helps some, and I hope the readers here will help a lot more in the comments.
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{ 21 comments… read them below or add one }
I rarely post but this one grabbed me. My husband is a lot like Alisa’s and has some great methods of tuning out. You need to jump in with both feet. Finding ways to “catch” someone’s attention who is avoiding hard conversations isn’t easy but I learned an important lesson from a good friend on this one. When all else fails, she taps the surface in front of her and tells her husband, “I need you here with me on this one, right now not later.” It took me a long time to master that level of assertiveness; I’m still a work in progress. Pick three things to work on this week, this month, this year – then go for it.
but what do you do if you go to counsiling and she refuses to go, says shes done …
wont listen to anyone telling her she should reconsider(her entire family) how do you save a marriage if your partner refuses to try
I am a quilter. I think it is good to have something that really interest you. If he is in to welding-then you are safe- the x girlfriend is no threat. Why do you not think of things he can weld for you, before long you might want to weld with him and it can weld your relationship. Do not take your problems to seriously- if you are depressed it might be difficult to see the sun- but it is shining.
I think your marriage is worth fighting for. You sound tired, which is both physical and emotional. Babies change the dynamic in a marriage. Like a three legged race you have to learn to move as a team. If he disconnected when you were struggling with depression then he responded to what he saw in you. Direct your energy back to him. It’s hard to compete with a baby who became the family focus. You need a babysitter and a regular date night to remember why you got married in the first place. (How about a list like that?) The ex girlfriend show that he wants to connect emotionally. You offer so much more. Take the inititive and express your love to him without expectations of what he owes you. Love begets love. Be the flame. There are so many great days and years ahead for you three. Its the daily investment that will bring the return.
First off, I understand. My wife “checked out” emotionally and physically last year and I am still trying to figure out why so I can fix.
Second, Alisa described the one thing that has spoken to me more than anything else, and that is to promise to “try everything” to stay married. To me this one sentiment is the essence of the marital vows.
Winston Churchill once said, “If you are going through hell, keep going.” Rodney Atkins, a country music singer expanded on it:
If you’re going through hell
Keep on going, don’t slow down
If you’re scared, don’t show it
You might get out
Before the devil even knows you’re there
Third, (Elizabeth is either a very smart lady and Dr Laura fan, or just one really smart lady.) you owe it to your baby to give him/her a home with a mother and a father. Say to yourself, “Last year was a bad year and it is done. From this day forward, it will be better.” Don’t dwell on the rotten past, learn from it so you do not make same mistakes. Do the right thing, starting now. Give to him your best you. Assault him with your love. If he wants to talk, you listen. If he wants physical attention, give it morning, noon, and night. If it is sex, then do the same, morning, noon and night. I bet the ex-girlfriend disappears pretty quickly. Go get a copy of “Proper Care and Feeding of Marriage”. Remember, knowledge is power.
Lastly, show dome interest in his welding. Be proud he was willing and able to learn something new instead of gaining 100lbs and sitting on the couch belching. Encourage him and watch him light up. We men are simple, we want our woman’s love and to impress her and make her proud of us.
Prayers are with you!
Hey everybody. I haven’t been on here in a while as my beloved & I were moving. We are finally settled in & LOVING the new place.
Anyway in response to this post. The writer says herself that she went through a post partum depression. This is a fairly common thing as is the husbands reaction to it. I am not saying it is right but it happens a LOT. He more than likely felt you were checking out yourself, focusing solely on the baby & the depression you were in. His reaction was more than likely an effort to avoid emotional pain himself.
In one fell swoop his whole world changed. In addition to all the complexities a new baby can bring he was also dealing with a wife who changed as well. The good news is he didn’t leave & obviously held some value to the marriage. He more than likely at that time felt exactly as you feel now. Most of the time depression will make a person emotionally check out on not just marriage but in many things, work, interpersonal relationships etc. In addition most people going through aren’t even aware that they are doing it. But once again the good news is that he remained patient in the hopes that the woman he fell in love with would return.
This took a year to get to this point & it won’t be fixed overnight. There needs to be patience on both parts. You say that it took his feeling you might leave to do something. This is also VERY common. Alisa had a very good post about this before. It is common not only in marriage but many aspects of life. It is human nature not to take action until it is almost to late, be it in marriage, a job etc.
My advice would be to show the same patience with him that he did during your depression. What both sides have done with emotionally checking out is a defense mechanism. Each have dealt with dramatic changes in a short time. Both need to time to heal.
Marriage is a lifelong commitment that will have many rocky roads along the journey. Sometimes we just need to remind ourselves of the reasons we married our spouse in the first place. We also need to remind ourselves that marriage is about more than our own wants, needs and desires. In single life that is fine but once we make the commitment to share a lifetime together we have to consider the needs of our spouse as well. We also have to consider the needs of any children involved. In the end though when we take the time and effort to get past the rough times & we take time to nurture the marriage AND each other the destination is so worth the journey.
Keep On Rockin
Ron
It’s really hard for me to grasp that she should take all of the responsibility for this. It takes TWO! I feel like everyone is saying that she isn’t trying hard enough here. She can try and try and try until she’s completely out of breathe and still get absolutely no where if he’s not trying as well or even being receptive to her.
I’m going through the same thing, so I probably don’t have any good advice. Just know that you’re not alone. There are many people going through this. One thing that has helped me to develop my feelings is a message board forum. It might help many of you as well.
http://www.talkaboutmarriage.com
It’s not nearly as supportive as Alisa’s site, but people are honest and it’s anonymous, so you don’t have to worry about anyone reading what you write.
Good luck to you and if you find the answer, please share it so the rest of us can gain from your experience.
To SanM – if your partner is refusing to try, you can’t change their mind. BUT keep working on yourself, go to counseling, become a better you. The only person whose thoughts and actions you can dictate are your own. In my case, working on me forced my husband to do a little work.
Hi, It’s me. I don’t want to step in here… but I wrote this question and I just want to thank Alisa so much for giving it airtime despite her cold. Thank you! And very good insight! I’m actually surprised to see all the positive comments I am getting; I really thought everyone was going to say trash him!
But one thing I do want to point out is we’re not married. We met, he wanted a kid. So did I, we had one (a year into our relationship) and he’s not asking me to marry him.
But that’s all. I’ll go back to lurking now.
Btw, nice post, Ron. Wow.
Wow.
Thanks for that.
Bodhima´s last [type] ..Laura Munson
Here is another resource to consider as you wonder what to do: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michele-weinerdavis/the-biggest-divorce-dont-_b_787677.html – Great line – “If children are involved, there is no such thing as divorce.”
This is normal. You had a baby, he got less attention so he searched somewhere else (his ex). I would be really angry too but try to take a deep breath and know that with love and patience, good things can and do happen. Also, it’s normal for you to go through postpartum depression. Kids are a lot of work. It gets easier as they get older.
I’ve been through something similar where I had 3 young kids, working 50+ hrs/week including weekends while going to school two nights a week. My husband felt “lonely and neglected” (his words). He hated being at home after work alone with the kids. He hated me working weekends. My husband found a “friend” who paid attention to him. When I found out, I wanted so much to talk about his betrayal but our therapist told me this: “She’s not the cause of your problems, she’s just a symptom of what your relationship is going through, don’t talk about her to him, talk about your love and she’ll soon disappear” so he urged me to talk to him about what I wanted from our relationship and to listen to him and found out what he wanted. It took a lot of patience and a lot of love but 4 years later our relationship is so much better. We’re both happier than we’ve ever been. He confessed to me one day she wasn’t important to him but it was nice to feel special again.
I quit my full time job to save my marriage. Last year after I graduated, I started working part time. When kids are older I’ll work full time. Or if I decide to work fulltime before then, I will be more aware of the hours, weekends are a no no. I know my husband and he’s the type of man who loves attention.
Life is so much better now because I get to be with the kids and watch them grow. He gets all the attention he needs. I get breakfast in bed every weekend(no kidding). Now he tells me he feels terrible he put me through such pain, he says he hates who he became in that period of resentment. To me it was a very good example of Love conquers all.
Maybe if you ask him what makes him happy. Tell him you love to see him happy and maybe he’ll understand that no ex or anyone else will fulfill whatever it is he feels he’s missing. And of course, she’s got to go. He must break all communication perhaps a letter to tell her that their chats is affecting the most precious relationship(yours and his) in his life. He’ll probably not do it right away. It took my husband 10 months to have the courage to write such letter and only after he knew without a doubt that I still love him and that he was special enough.We went to the gym together, we went on dates more often and I finally got my amateur radio license(his hobby) that he had been asking me to get for so long.
Sorry if it sounds like you must do all the work but you’re the one who is more aware that something needs to change. Set up a date night every week. Take a least 2 hours every week to just be the two of you again. It doesn’t have to be expensive, maybe a walk, a coffee chat, show him your beautiful smile again. Trust your instincts, express your love, hug him more often(even if sometimes you feel angry), take care of yourself so he sees you’re still that woman he chose to be with. You are the mother of his child, you’re still his queen. Sometimes men just need a reminder.
Don’t worry about the not being married part. You live together, it’s all the same. When you both find a way to understand what the other needs and try to fulfill it, the marriage part will happen naturally. Sending my best wishes.
Becky, I just had to write and say thank you. That is some of the best advice I’ve seen. Maybe our therapist thinks the same b/c I was SHOCKED she didn’t address this ex-gf business AT ALL.
And I’m still shocked that he hasn’t offered to do away with her.
He told me (when I first asked about it and found out) “I told you I was talking to her.” (he didn’t) and “It’s not an inappropriate relationship” (it is) and “I’m not going to stop talking to her.” I nearly left.
But now I’m seeing it as arsenal. he’s still hanging on.
I do feel, me being me, though, that I need to work through it (at some point) maybe not now – but somewhere down the road (I’m a Capricorn) – as a betrayal. I need some remorse. I need some understanding of why/how. And I need the empathy from him.
But I’ve finally put that aside – for now. Which is helping. But it’s not something that comes natural to me.
This approach to relationships is all new to me – I’ve *always* worked at them, but never like this. Never taking the “high road” so to speak. But this is making sense for me in my life right now – as a mother, as a woman approaching 40, as a woman who is healing. This is who I want to be. It’s just freaking hard!
Thanks for that lovely lovely response. What beautiful wise words!
Bodhima´s last [type] ..Laura Munson
To KW
Thnks for the comments Its really frustrating me, That she seems to just want to call it
Quits and not work on our marriage We have 2 kids ages 6 and 4 and shes 14 weeks
pregnate with our third and she leaves, says she no longer loves me….But 14 weeks
ago or more she did or she wouldnt be pregnate………Im totally floored, She refuses
to talk to me , in anything more than an angry tone Says shes never coming back
and so far has refuses to even go to councilling…………
To KW
Thnks for the comments Its really frustrating me, That she seems to just want to call it
Quits and not work on our marriage We have 2 kids ages 6 and 4 and shes 14 weeks
pregnate with our third and she leaves, says she no longer loves me….But 14 weeks
ago or more she did or she wouldnt be pregnate………Im totally floored, She refuses
to talk to me , in anything more than an angry tone Says shes never coming back…
BodHiMa-
I have read all your blog posts and would have commented on your blog but I don’t have any of the ID’s, so I’ll comment here!
One post that I think was illustrative was the one where you described your couples session where you discussed him contacting his ex. First, you were upset that the session was not going according to your plan (ie, the counselor was not reacting in your mind “appropriately” to the ex issue). Second, you tried to interrupt your partner while he was talking to the counselor and you were hurt that the counselor did not allow you to interrupt.
It made me realize that you have an idea of exactly who you think your bf should be. When he doesn’t act exactly in accordance with that idea (he takes up welding, he watches porn, he contacts his exes), you get locked into a battle with him and try to show him how much who he is at that moment in time is hurting you. You seem to apply this to other areas of your life, like your relationship with your therapist. The reason I pick up on this is that my mother does it to, and its cost her her marriage and her relationship with her daughters.
You need to figure out if you can live with his faults, with who he is right now at the this moment and stop imagining who he can/will be, as he may never be that person. I’ve always though of marriage as the only time you get to pick your family members’ faults that you get to live with for the rest of your life! I think that if you can’t live with him the way he is, then maybe it is time to leave.
Although you don’t talk about it much on your blog, it does seem as though you are financially dependent on him. It might be time for you too to have a calm talk about your expectations for each other. Challenge yourself to listen to him while he’s talking – really listening and processing what he’s saying and asking clarifying questions. Our counselors would have us do exercises where one of us would talk and then the other person would have to paraphrase what they said. Then, it the paraphrasing wasn’t right, the other person would explain, and then the other would paraphrase again. We only got to move on once we could both listen well-enough to paraphrase the other person correctly! It was a great method for structuring conversations.
I would also encourage you to look for a counselor or Licensed Social Worker who practices behavioral/cognitive therapy rather than psychotherapy, which seems to be what you are currently doing. Behavioral/Cognitive therapy is more geared towards changing the way you communicate with each other rather than exploring feelings, with the rationale being that you can’t explore your feelings if neither of you knows how to listen, which seems to be what’s going on in your relationship now. Me and my hubbie now have the best and most productive conversations (not fights) of our lives. We really had to learn how to fight productively. You could try calling your local university to get a list of providers as usually university therapy centers are almost 100% behavioral/cognitive, so they’ll know others in the community.
This will be really hard for you because you need to let go of the idea of changing your bf. But it you do, you might realize that your bf is more amazing than you ever could have imagined him.
-Sarah
Thanks, I opened up comments now. I think what you’re talking about in the second-to-last paragraph is Imago therapy. It’s something I’d like to do.
I hear what you’re saying, but the porn, the ex, the sarcasm, the not sleeping in the same bed, and the no sex. Um, these are not “flaws” or “faults” of my boyfriend. They’re like guns pointed at my head right now. He is angry and I am to blame. I don’t think anyone can live like that.
Like based on what you’re saying, I’d leave him tonight. If things stay this way. But my hope is that I can adjust my behavior (stop reacting) so he can adjust his. What’s happening now is that we’re both pretty escalated and he’s withdrawn, angry, isolating, distancing. I gotta look at why, but it’s naturally pretty painful …
Sorry I sound so defensive. I really did take in what you said but this is not like normal life and we’re having sex/sleeping in the same bed/not betraying each other and then I’m stirring stuff up, complaining, finding fault. If that were the case, then I can see your point.
Does that make sense? Or do I just sound totally defensive?
Bodhima´s last [type] ..Day 17- Attached to Pain
Take it or leave it, I have no substantive experience coming from a position anything like that, but here’s what I would do:
Give your marriage a deadline. Make it very clear that by the end of said deadline, you need to feel like the relationship is worth future investment. Then try like hell to make the deadline. Make it a long deadline. Best case scenario? Your husband sees that you are taking this idea of separation very seriously and/or you find the brilliant solution, the missing puzzle piece, and you live Happily Ever After (haaaa get it? Because it’s the name? haaa). Worst case, you have the worst year(s) of your life, but your daughter’s father is around for some key formative moments, and you can walk away knowing that you won’t ever wonder “what if I had…”
I walked away from a terrible marriage without children and at age 22, and it was the hardest decision of my life, so I can’t imagine how you are feeling. I gave it my all and it wasn’t worth saving (very complicated background, which also is why I got married at 22… not my best moment). But I gave it my all, and therefore much more adjusted about the whole thing. If you’re still wondering, then you aren’t quite ready to throw in the towel. (If you just read that last line and wanted to kill me, then maybe you are ready. The point being, when you know beyond a doubt, I think you’ll know.)
Thanks, Christa. That makes sense. I have five big things that need to change in this relationship – he needs to start initiating sex. We need to be back in the same bed. His sarcasm and nasty comments need to end. He needs to stop talking to his ex. He needs to stop using porn (and I say “using” because it’s using it for something other than a need that he can come to me with) …
I have other “needs” but they are small compared to this and I think we can work on them.
Last night, he moved the beds. It’s tricky b/c our daughter isn’t used to sleeping alone (which is why I’m out here on my computer and not sleeping) but that was HUGE to me. We are back to sleeping in the same bed (or at least in the same room – she’s on a mattress on the floor and he can go to her if she cries).
So that’s a big one. He was also being very nice to me last night. I think if we can start here. I can do some being nice back. And we can see where this goes.
I stay because of my daughter, yes. Sadly, sometimes that’s all. But I have invested a lot in this and I’m tired and wary about starting another relationship. And I know I’m doing a lot of work on myself right now vis-a-vis this relationship. So if I were to leave, that work may end and I’ll end up with someone else doing the same work.
As Sarah said, I have to accept him. Accepting him means accepting myself too – so both are in order. I’m scared to be with someone who is angry (but then I’m angry too – and working on it). I’m scared to be with someone who seems selfish at times (but I can seem selfish too) so it goes on and on.
Thanks everyone. This has been so helpful!!!
Bodhima´s last [type] ..Day 17- Attached to Pain
Bodhima, I have read a lot of your blog also. I am not too sure that I have any words of wisdom or anything appropriate to say. I am the one who has checked out in my marriage. I am dealing with a diabetic husband that had sugar so high he was miserable to deal with. After being yelled at and told so much I have just checked out. I am also in the same boat as you with the sex issues. If I initiated I get rejected and that hurts but he also does not initiate. It’s a loosing situation. I try to keep reminding me that sex is not what a good relationship is about. But it still sucks. I am not checked out to the point of talking to ex’s or anything that drastic. I just don’t care to care any more. Give your boyfriend some room and work with him. I know it would help if my husband would work with me. We love who we love with no reasons. If you love him you can work it out. I love my husband and I plan on staying with him even though I have temporarily checked out.
This is my first comment here, so I hope I can remember all the instructions in the manifesto!
I, too, had PPD after my first child was born. Actually, I had perinatal anxiety/mood disorder throughout my pregnancy with her (although I didn’t figure it out untilater). It was the hardest year of our marriage, hands down.
One thing that it took me a while to figure out was that even though my husband wasn’t the one who “went through it” (he didn’t get PAMD/PPD, he didn’t give birth, his life didn’t upheave as much as mine did with having a baby), he did go through what he went through, and he needed time to heal from his wife losing her mind for the better part of a year. When he threw himself into other things (welding, in your case) he was checking out to protect himself – because being around me when I was like that hurt him.
It’s easy, when you’re dealing with illness (mental or physical) to think, “HE should be strong for ME right now,” but you need to give him some space to deal with what happened to your family, too. He has the right to grieve the experience he imagined but didn’t get due to PPD. He has the right to anger, sadness, disappointment, and whatever other emotions come along with it. One of my husband’s big ones was fear that I’d hurt the baby or myself, and guilt that he couldn’t be with us every minute to protect us (someone had to go to work).
What really helped our marriage start to heal from that experience was me finding my compassion for him. And when he saw that I had found compassion for him and what he went through with me/because of my illness, he started to feel safe with me again, and like he could open up to me again. Our communication improved, he began to trust me again, he started to feel safe in our relationship, and I got healthier and started to feel safer too. The first step was me taking care of myself, but the second step was finding compassion for him.
Now our daughter is 5-1/2, and she has a 4 year old sister and a 3 month old brother. Our marriage is stronger than ever. Our family is intact. We survived, and it was worth it.
Postpartum Progress is a great resource for healing from PPD.
Good luck to you!
Amy´s last [type] ..Chapter Books!!!