My husband and I do not share the same values. I’m a Buddhist who strives to practice random acts of kindness at every turn. My husband’s religion is his bicycle. (You think I’m making fun of him here. You think I’m exaggerating. I am so not. I dare you to ask him, “What do you believe in?” He will either answer “my bike” or “beer.”)
I value creativity. I write. I read. I solve problems. If I could not do these things on a daily basis, life would become boring, tedious and torturous.
My husband only reads when he’s in the bathroom. I wouldn’t say that he thinks creativity is a bad thing, but he doesn’t value it. He doesn’t need to have it in his life in order to be happy. Risk taking, on the other hand, is something he values. He is a thrill seeker. He loves pushing the limits. Danger makes him feel alive.
Danger makes me want to hide under my bed.
Even with parenting, our values are not the same. He values being a disciplinarian and having a child who does what she is told. Although I am not necessarily against having a child who does what she’s told (hey, makes my life easier), I’m more of a teacher. I like to set up situations that allow my child to grow.
We’re different.
I’m guessing you and your spouse are, too. Maybe you are religious and your spouse is not. Maybe you are a health food fanatic and your spouse is a cheese doodle fanatic. Maybe you are into athletics and your spouse is into the La-Z-Boy.
All of this is fine as long as you can both respect your differences. Problems arise when you assume that you have values and your spouse does not. You both have values. You just don’t share the same ones.
If you allow yourself to believe that your spouse’s values are just as important to him as your values are to you, then you can navigate your differences and solve problems over time.
These are the things I remind myself whenever our values conflict:
- He is just as entitled to his values as I am entitled to mine.
- I do not need him to share my values in order for me to feel okay about myself.
- I do not need him to believe in my values in order for me to believe in my values.
I realize that this is not easy. For instance, my husband insists that we toss food remnants in the trash rather than composting them. He has his reasons, but those reasons conflict with my value to improve the environment. Every time I scrape food into the trashcan, it hurts.
But I have to remind myself of a few things. First, my husband rides his bike nearly everywhere rather than driving a car. That’s good for the planet.
Second, there’s a way to solve my problem without going behind my husband’s back and burying the food in the backyard somewhere. It’s this: I can only cook foods that I know we can all eat. That way, there are no leftovers that need to be tossed. I can also experiment with eating every part of every food. For instance, did you know that you can eat the skin of a kiwi fruit? That’s right. It’s perfectly edible. I’ve tried it.
As for the rest? My dog is usually happy to eat it.
Figuring out this solution allowed me to use my creative muscle. So, in a way, my husband did me a favor by telling me that I couldn’t compost.
It’s my belief that most value conflicts can be solved in a similar way.
What are your value conflicts? Let’s talk about them in the comments and see if we can come up with creative ways to solve them together.
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Great post! I’m not sure what our specific value conflicts are right now… my brain juices are really exhausted right now from a short night’s sleep. But I do know my husband and I are very different in many ways. Used to make me really nervous and anxious, but not so much anymore. He values doing things outdoors, where I value my DVR’d shows with some time outside, often just sitting and enjoying my surroundings. I value music very much and will tear up during certain songs. He has claimed to “hate music” anymore and listens solely to talk radio when he’s in his truck. I’m more “spiritual” than him (not religious per se, but not spiritual in the sense that I practice what you do with your Buddhism). Maybe those are some of them. We don’t have children yet, so I don’t know how our parenting values differ.
It’s amazing to me. You hear “as long as your core values are similar, you’ll be OK” in this marriage game. But, your post, and when I really think of my husband and myself, really makes me wonder… do you have to have similar values/beliefs, or does it come down more so to respect for each other’s beliefs with some common ground thrown in for good measure? I tend to think you can be as different as night and day, but as long as you accept each other and respect the differences, that goes a lot longer than agreeing on everything.
I know my husband and I don’t share all the same values. But we do respect each other’s differences. I’m very into recycling. My hubby recycles or else he catches me in the kitchen trash pulling out recyclable items. He built me a compost collector near our garden area even tho he could care less.
I’m not a “religious” person (but very spiritual) but I do like some crosses. My hubby is NOT into anything religious (he’s spiritual also) and really doesn’t like what the cross symbolizes. The one 3 inch cross I bought, hangs in the closet of my craft room. A place my hubby doesn’t venture (it’s my woman cave). The cross is “hidden” so it doesn’t bother him and I still have a cross. (So don’t tell him it’s hanging in the closet.)
I can’t think of much else. We have the habit of making agreements and when either of us tries to veer away from a prior agreement, the other has the right to protest the veering. I’m not in agreement with something my hubby plans to do (it’s not harmful, it doesn’t violate our marriage vows, just my button) and I voiced my opinion on this after our agreement that he could do X and I could and was doing Y. He kindly reminded me “we’ve agreed on this”. OK, fine, I’ll zip my lips from now on.
The one thing we didn’t see eye-to-eye on, which I promised him was grounds for divorce, he wanted to get a tattoo of a snake. Hello husband, do you NOT remember who you’re married to? I’m deathly afraid of snakes. You get a snake tattoo and I’ll never touch your body again and I will divorce you. And then I dished back to him “how about I get a tattoo of a spider”? He hates spiders as much as I hate snakes. We have a new agreement – no tattoos of snakes or spiders.
It just takes talking and then agreements. Or at least that’s what works for hubby and I.
As always you hit the nail on the head Alisa. My husband and I could not be more different. In fact, I always know how he thinks about any subject because I know how I think or what I believe and he is, I’d say 90% of the time, the opposite.
The three things you remind yourself of are SO important. I wish it hadn’t taken me so many years of marriage to come to the same conclusion.
However, I must say that after 41 years of marriage, and much to my surprise, he is actually much more open to me than I am to him. HIS opinions, even his values have changed more than mine (I’m embarrassed to admit).
Most people think that as you age, you hold on more tightly than ever to your beliefs, but this isn’t true with my husband. He is 75. His views of religion which were very conservative, as well as politics, have definitely swung toward the middle (where I’ve been all along I might say, LOL!). This is something honestly I never thought would happen.
So for those of you who have been married a shorter time
Listen to Alisa, but also know that people can and do change!
A lady who knows to say “kiwifruit” instead of “kiwi”, I love it!
Fortunately, my darling man and I agree pretty closely on most issues. Not all. But most. Of course, now we are renovating the house, we’ll see how well that statement stands. Yikes!
.-= Frugal Kiwi´s last blog ..Racked with Pleasure =-.
This is something we struggle with. I’m a vegan (and consider it a very spiritual, almost religious, part of my life), he’s an omnivore, and while what we each individually eat doesn’t matter to the other, what we feed our son is getting to be a big problem. He’s also a fan of laying on the sofa watching TV every minute that he’s home, while I want us (including him) to be social, to play and interact with our son, to fix up our house, to go on walks, to talk about things, and to just BE together as a family.
Wow…I really needed to read this because my husband and I conflict a lot. He’s religious and I’m spiritual. Every time I talk about my beliefs which have to do with God/Universe – or the law of attraction, he thinks it’s a bunch of hocus pocus. It makes me upset because it’s something I truly believe in. So we just don’t talk about it. But, part of me feels sad because I’d like to have someone to talk to about it- or just at the very least be open to it without me feeling hurt by it.
Good post.
I think respecting difference is great and necessary. I also think that finding ways of having our needs met other than expecting our partner to meet them is very healthy. But there comes a time when there are so many differences and so many needs not being met that there is just not enough to hold you together. That’s what happened for me and X. Reading my response I realize that if you have a lot of differences then it is probably quite important for your partner to be meeting a significant number of your needs, otherwise what is the point of being together?
I would love to know why you are not allowed to compost. The only reasonable reasons I can come up with is that 1. You live in an apartment or have so little back yard that you couldn’t use it. 2. You are not great in follow-through and would end up with a great pile of sludge rather than compost. Please enlighten us, I’m sure I’m not the only one who is wondering.
I am so grateful to have found your site. I am engaged and have struggled mightily with the profound differences between my beloved and me. While it is nice to say that you can respect each other’s differences, it is quite another when those core values conflict with how you live your life. You can respect differences you have with your friends because what they do doesn’t affect you on such an intimate level. Part of what you love about your mate is WHAT HE THINKS. For me this has been a struggle because while I respect him and love him, some of his behaviors and beliefs tied to those behaviors turn me off and have lessened the love and respect.
Like Amanda, I don’t talk about certain topics with my sweetie because I know we are going to have some philosophical discussion that ends up making me disconnect from him emotionally. I want to feel like a team & because of some core value conflicts, I don’t. It makes me sad because I really am not sure even almost 2 years later if we are right for each other. It’s a need that I can’t get met by the person with whom I am supposed to feel closest to. Sometimes love isn’t enough because the respect — while there — is influenced by each of you believes…
Sage–this is my husband’s opinion so I’m probably not going to capture it well. But basically he thinks it will attract skunks and rats and he thinks the dog will get into it. Eventually, when we have the funds, I’ll get one of those compost tumbler things and that will solve the problem. He’s perfectly fine with me composting in an enclosed, sturdy container.
.-= Alisa Bowman´s last blog ..What To Do When Your Values Conflict =-.
DG and Amanda–Totally understand. I think the issue here is that he doesn’t respect your values. But, in Amanda’s case, your values are similar if you back up and find the common ground. You both have faith, and faith is the belief in something that you cannot prove is there. He believes in something that he can not prove. You believe in something that you can not prove. The arguments arise because you both so deeply want the other to confirm that you are correct in your faith. Does that make sense? If you are willing to let go of the need to be validated (both of you), you might be able to have these deep heartfelt discussions that you seek. I am very spiritual and my husband is an atheist, but we can still talk about what happens after death because it’s not important for me to convert him and vice versa. We can have a calm, open discussion. He can tell me about the maggots that are going to eat his body. I can tell him about what I will be when I am reincarnated. I don’t know if that helps or not, but I thought I’d put it out there.
.-= Alisa Bowman´s last blog ..What To Do When Your Values Conflict =-.
So Alisa: I am really trying to understand. What do you feel is necessary to keep a marriage together then? If you don’t need the same faith or the same values to such an extent that you can both just kind of “do your own thing” what is left then? Co-habitating? I’m really trying right now to figure out why I should stay married to Ray other than separating my finances from his will be a real bitch and I put so much work into the house that I hate to loose it.
We don’t have the same faith, he is religious but has no idea what proclaiming a faith versus living a faith means, I on the other hand am genuinely confused about what is “out there”, have had my down on my knees moments and have never felt more alone.
A marriage cannot survive on love alone. That much I have realized because I love Ray and am still losing my marriage. In every free moment I have I am sitting in meditation hoping whatever divinity is out there will reach into my heart with answers, if nothing else I am feeling some peace.
Mutual respect? I was raised to respect everyone especially those who are living a different life experience than I so just respecting someone’s values isn’t enough either to lead to happiness in a marriage it just leads to fewer fights, for me not fighting isn’t all there is to a happy marriage either.
Joanne and Ray–I don’t think there is a marriage where every value meshes together. It might seem that way from the outside looking in. But I think most couples have value conflicts. My husband and I have some things in common, but they are not completely in sync. For instance, we’re both athletic, but I run and he cycles. We both like the outdoors, but he’s into scary stuff (rock climbing etc) and I’m more into hiking. I think the common bond that we share–the one that is important to me and that I would never give up–is that he supports my dreams, and I support his, even if we don’t share the same dream. I helped him launch his store. He’s supporting me now with my book and blog. We’re both willing to do hard and, at times, uncomfortable things in order to help the other achieve happiness. To me, that’s what’s important. The differences give us something to talk about. I hope that helps. Every couple is different, and I don’t think you can necessarily use my example as proof that your marriage can work. But I will say that there is a way to navigate differences in values. Does that make sense?
.-= Alisa Bowman´s last blog ..What To Do When Your Values Conflict =-.
Alisa, my guy actually DOES respect my values & opinions. The problem is *I* don’t respect some of his. How open does your mind have to be before your brain falls out of your head? Compromise is key. Effective communication is essential. What I think Joanne is getting at is -and I empathize with 1000%- what if we are communicating with the wrong people?
Love isn’t enough. Respect and support aren’t enough. I get that from my friends. The special sauce & glue are the understanding and validation on SOME level. How can the team ‘win’ (i.e. have a long-term, happy, mutually satisfying marriage) if they don’t see eye to eye on more things than not? I don’t need to be married if that’s the case.
Love, besides being action and DOING for your partner and partnership, is respect, admiration, adoration, awe…Complementary relationships do seem to be what is best to prevent boredom and being with a carbon copy of yourself (impossible and *I* wouldn’t want to live w/ me…LOL!). But, similarities are what seem to bond us long-term. Am I wrong?
Having differences in ways to exercise and get rid of trash are one thing. Whether you will have ‘adult’ material strewn all over your house & a husband that recreationally smokes pot is quite another…
DG–I don’t think there is a right and a wrong with this. No one can tell you that your reality is wrong. Either there is something that bonds you together or there isn’t, right? For me, it’s that dream support. But if you’ve searched for it and you keep coming up empty and you really can’t see a difference between being together and being alone (in other words you feel alone when you are together), that’s a much bigger problem than a value conflict.
.-= Alisa Bowman´s last blog ..What To Do When Your Values Conflict =-.
DG and Alisa- I kind of get what you are saying Alisa in having someone to support you as being a wonderful thing because I don’t think the human being as a species was meant to be alone. I think we were meant to work in partnerships and that the foundation of this partnership was to be caring and affection (love).
DG- is also right though in that I can get respect from my children or the people I work with. My girlfriends give me support. My mom adores me. They are not all I need from my spouse.
I always thought of Ray as my safe harbor. He was the payoff for the workday so to speak. I thought I could curl up in him and relax for awhile recharge so I could do it all again the next day. I wanted to be that place for him too. Romantic notions? I suppose so but like I told Ray one time, in counseling, because he is saying he shows he loves me by making my lunch and doing the laundry and cleaning the house and of course the counselor is looking at me like “what the hell is wrong with you!” and I told him, I can hire a housekeeper and I can buy my lunch but after a long day I can’t hold me.
I’ve never been able to make him understand that. I told him this morning that I don’t want him to make my lunch anymore.
Another excellent post Alisa. My personal belief (and this is just mine) is that BEFORE marriage if you don’t share the same values on MAJOR issues such as religion, child rearing, financial priorities, family, sex etc then you probably should not get married or you will be setting yourself up for some major conflict. Especially if you can’t agree on how to raise your children, sex & financial priorities. Those are issues that probably cause more conflict in marriage than any other. In things like different political beliefs or as you have mentioned enviormental issues etc you don’t have to be on the same page. I think major conflict comes when one spouses beliefs change after you are married.
In my first marriage we went through a period of changed values latter in the marriage. About all of them stemmed from differences in our faith. As my wife got much deeper into her religion her values had a profound change, while mine stayed basicly the same. This caused some major conflicts. Especially in the area of sex. Suddenly some things we both enjoyed in the past became in her words dirty. Not even talking about doing anything particulaly kinky but things 99% of married couples do. The funny part is that our religion didn’t even teach that. But suddenly anything outside of vanilla was taboo & she refused.
Much more than sex changed although that one probably had the greatest effect. As a musician I had to occassionly play in bars & that became a major conflict. So instead of just saying we will have to agree to disagree I was expected to just quit most everything I enjoyed. To ask me to quit my band was paramount to asking me to cut my arm off. Playing music isn’t something a musician does it is what he or she is. It comes from deep within our soul is a HUGE part of our life. She married a musician so it wasn’t like I decided mid-stream to become one.
All of this isn’t actually what caused the divorce but really caused conflict. So there is a LOT of truth in what you said. We need to learn to respect the spouses values even when we don’t share the same values. As long as they aren’t issues that are deal breakers. For instance if our spouse suddenly decides that they are becoming a porn actress..lol We can learn to respect most things. What is funny now is that my current wife & I are dedicated to the same faith that caused conflict. Just different interpitations of it lol.
Drummer Guy: Your first marriage sounds alot like what is happening in my second except I don’t think Ray’s faith is a deep and abiding faith ( a soul faith) but just an excuse to avoid intimacy.
Your posts about how much you love “your beloved” though have always given me hope though and I am glad you have found someone special in your second marriage.
Boy, what an interesting discussion this brings about, huh? It’s interesting to me how most commenters comment on differences in religion/faith/spiritual beliefs first. My relationship sounds like Alisa’s, with the exception that I am not a practicing Buddhist and still tend toward more Christian types of beliefs, although I’m not sure I’m a Christian per se (does that make any sense? This is why I go toward “spiritual” rather than “religious”). My husband is either an athiest or an agnostic… whichever one is the “I don’t know if there’s something out there, but I can’t prove it, so I just don’t know,” not the “there absolutely is no God” belief. He tends toward the scientific explaination of life/death, but isn’t closed off to the possibility that something else COULD be possible. I digress…
I do really think support and respect is what’s worked in my own marriage. Not just in terms of relgion, but with everything that we differ on. It has taken work, especially on my side because I tend to be someone with super high expectations of how things “should” work. I’ve learned to accept the differences, even if they’re hard. I guess nothing has come up that’s so major that it makes me think it’s a “deal breaker” for me… that is another big difference I believe. It’s up to you and your spouse what these “deal breakers” are. Alisa can say what’s worked for her… I can say what’s working for me… Drummer Guy can say what’s working for him… but none of that is general across all marriages. Marriage/relationships are very specific to the couple itself. So it’s all a matter of what is important within your own marriage.
@Joanne. Just know you are both in our thoughts. Were rootin for ya
There is this idea out there that Christians live sexually repressed lives. While it may be true with a few (like my ex..lol) it isn’t for most. It actually teaches that sex is something to be enjoyed & ENJOYED OFTEN. The difference is that it teaches to keep that within marriage. Basicly if it is something the couple both enjoy & doesn’t violate the vows..GO FOR IT!!! LOL 
Not trying to prostolatize at all here as many follow different faiths which is cool, just explaining.
@Natalie. I agree wholeheartedly. Many couples have different deal breakers. I discussed the importance of music to me before I married my first wife. She just changed mid stream. Also I didn’t let her know before I married it was a real deal breaker with me. I really learned from that mistake. So I knew to discuss that at length before I married my beloved. It is also the same reason I can’t be with a person with a jealous nature. The biz attracts female fans. I am super polite to them. After all they buy tickets to the shows, buy C D’s & are where the pay comes from. But I also have to let them know that I am faithfully married. Still we have to give an occassional hug, sign CD’s & maybe a peck on the cheek so you can see where a jealous or extremely insecure wife/girlfriend just doesn’t work.. lol
But some things that are deal breakers for me aren’t for others. I even know a couple from my last job that did the open marriage thing. Personally I could never do that but if it works for them. Your right on in that each couple has to decide what is the deal breakers for them.
I just read my post & realize I made it sound like I have a bunch of women persuing me..lol. Not the case. It is just that the biz attracts female as well as male fans. It is rarely a case of them wanting to get into bed. For the most part they just want to be seen with the band or be friends with the band etc. I have no idea why, but they seem to think it is cool to say “hey I know those guys etc”. 90% of the time they want nothing more than that or like I said a hug or such. Yea on rare occassion a few want to take it to far but they know I am not going to go there & usually afterward never cause any more problems. So NO I am not some music stud beating off the women..lol
Hey, Alisa!
I sooo needed to read this post! My boyfriend and I agree on the important things (religious beliefs, family, core values, etc.), but we don’t have many hobbies in common. He is a sports fanatic, and I am as girly as you can get. He also enjoys his beer, and I typically only drink 1-2 drinks at social gatherings.
I feel that I try really hard to embrace his interests. I go to more baseball, basketball, and football games than I can count! I even agreed to football season tickets this fall. However, I don’t feel like it’s reciprocated. When I ask to go to dinner and a movie, he usually shoots it down. If I want a date alone, he’s okay with it unless something else comes up (usually hanging with friends or a sporting event). I have talked to him about all of this, but he insists he does things for me. He’s talking more “family obligations,” such as weddings, couples showers, etc. I do all of those things for him, too.
I’ve also talked to him about the excessive (at times) amounts of alcohol he consumes. I’m fine with him drinking in moderation, but I hate when he gets drunk. In my eyes, 31 is too old for that stuff! He doesn’t see it as a problem, and insists he won’t drink as much once we’re married and have kids.
I have suggested couples counseling to deal with all of this, and he doesn’t think we need it. For the most part, we are a VERY happy couple. I know you may not think that from this post, but in every other area we are perfect for each other. I know I want to spend the rest of my life with him, but I would like to take care of these few issues first.
To make a VERY long story short…what do you do when you make the effort to embrace your spouse’s interests and beliefs, but you don’t feel they make the same effort towards your own? Any suggestions on how to navigate this sticky situation?
@ Kristi. I think I may be of some help. As long as your core values are the same other stuff doesn’t take on as much importance. My personal opinion is that it is a myth to think that as couples we should share all the same hobbies, pastimes etc. Truth is both sides probably need some hobbies & pastimes of their own. A little time to do something you enjoy alone or with say a fishing buddy (just an example) away from the spouse is relaxing and a good thing. Early in a relationship doing EVERYTHING together is fun for a while but most people eventually need some space too. I personally am glad my beloved doesn’t enjoy fishing or golf. That is my me time & makes for a healthy relationship. If we did everything together I would feel smothered.
As for the drinking to excess thing that CAN BE a MAJOR issue. I am not saying he is an alchoholic but if that pace continues he could be headed there. It is easy to overlook issues early in a relationship as we tend to be blinded by the whole new love thing. Excessive alcohol consumption though isn’t a value thing & can be very destructive. For me personally that would be a major deal breaker. In between my first & current marriage I dated a couple women that turned out to have major drinking problems & didn’t think they did. For me it was a deal breaker. But that is something you would have to decide on your own. Maybe you could help him see how destructive alcoholism is. EVERYBODY thinks they can handle it until it is too late. My late father was an alcoholic early in my childhood & it almost cost him his family. He was a totally different person as well when he drank. The good news is he didn’t drink at all the last 25 years of his life but it almost broke up the family. But if you can overcome that & your core values are the same, don’t sweat the whole hobbies thing. Some me time in a relationship is a good thing.
Kristi- I am definitely not in any position to give advise on what makes a good marriage and values considering where I am right now, so think of these as just thoughts.
Drummer Guy is right about a lot of what he said. Keep your girlfriends too, you don’t ever want to make one other person your whole life, it isn’t healthy for either of you and the time spent doing things apart only gives you things to talk about when you are together.
That being said if he is off with his buddies to frequently and only you two can decide what is “too” frequently you need to establish together some priorities as Kathy said “an agreement” is in order to waylay any resentments later on.
One last thing, I do truly believe that anyone is capable of change and growth but I think when considering marriage you need to look at your mate NOW and seriously decide if you can live with ALL of them just as they are now because the added pressures of marriage and children only accentuate “small differences” they certainly don’t make them look more attractive and the “I can change him” or “He will change” once we are married thing isn’t a good way to start that kind of commitment.
Talk now about those things, if necessary go to a couples counselor for an independent opinion and re-read many of the past subjects on this blog. If possible together.
Joanne you have a GREAT way with words. I know friends that when they first got in a relationship dissapeared for a short while. The usual new relationship lets spend every min together type thing. Most come back after the whole newness thing slows & they come up for air……lol. I have lost contact with a lot of friends just by being a full time caregiver. About the only ones I see on a regular basis are my bandmates & friends from church. And those are people I play music with on Sunday’s. But you made me realize that I really need to make an effort to reconnect with a couple of friends. Thanks my phea friend
@ natalie I forgot. The I don’t know is an agnostic. The I don’t believe period is the Athiest.
Kristi… Drummer Guy said a lot of what I thought when I read your post. I was like you, though, before I got married. I love musicals, my husband could care less. He goes hunting and fishing and, while I enjoy outdoors stuff, I can’t do that for hours on end. I used to think these things made us too different to make it work. Then I learned there’s a difference between having different values/beliefs and different hobbies/interests. Hobbies and interests should be different… and some should be shared too. At least that’s my opinion. If you do everything together all the time, you’re going to burn out FAST. You have to give each other space for yourselves. Marriage unties two people, but those two people are still individuals.
I’ve gone through periods of feeling like my husband hasn’t been “giving” as much time to my interests as I do his. Then I changed my perspective. My husband doesn’t have to do things with me that I know he hates, because he’ll be miserable and I’ll in turn not enjoy things as well. So now, I call up girlfriends or family when I want to go see a show. The rationale I give myself… just because he isn’t interested in something doesn’t mean we’re doomed. The fact that he supports me being interested in it is what matters. He may tease me or make fun of it, but he never says, “You can’t do that.” In fact, he encourages me to pursue things I’m interested in. That, to me, is the difference… and it took me a long time and a lot of work to get to this point.
Joanne… I’m so sorry you and Ray are in the place you are. You’re working on it and I sincerely hope you make it out of this valley soon.
Oh, and Drummer Guy… admit it, you were trying to gloss over the women throwing themselves at you.
@ Natalie If your hubby likes to hunt & fish he MUST
Darn it I hit the send button lol. Anyway if he likes to hunt & fish he must be a GREAT guy
. I don’t hunt anymore but like him can fish for hours on end. So obviously a great guy lol
Wow–a lot of food for thought here. I have almost the opposite problem. My husband and I share almost all the same core values, but we just can’t seem to find a way to get along. I feel that I just don’t love him anymore and I struggle daily to look into my heart and see if there is a possibility to feel love again for him. I know that this is a blog about how to save your marriage, but I am trying so hard to understand when the time is right to decide that it is in the best interests of everyone to move on.
@Drummerguy–It sounds like you have really found the key to marital success this time around. I understand the music issue being a deal breaker, but how and when did you know that it was time to split from your first wife. How long had you 2 been together?
@Joanne–I feel like we are in a similar boat here.
@DG “How open does your mind have to be before your brain falls out of your head? Compromise is key. Effective communication is essential. What I think Joanne is getting at is -and I empathize with 1000%- what if we are communicating with the wrong people?”
This quote pretty much nails it for me. We share the same values, we have common interests, etc., BUT there is something missing–a big something and although I have been soul searching, and thinking and journaling to find out what it really is that is missing, I can’t help but keep coming back to the feeling that we are just not right together anymore (after 20 years). I don’t feel like there is “deal breaker” issue per se, just don’t fell the love and not sure I can again. I am really sincerely sad and torn up about this.
Yea like this 48 year old is really having to beat off all them young things with a stick….. lol.
S- When you are not sure what to do, do nothing huge and like you are doing, just contemplate it until you are sure of the answer.
My girlfriend today says that she has never seen anyone try so hard to make it work as I have with Ray and she asked me the same thing about when is it really done for good. While I wrestle with it I have to say that I know it will be done when I have no more HOPE. When I don’t feel hope anymore I will then role up my sleeves and do the hard stuff of leaving but not until and let me tell you I latch on to even little stuff to find hope.
I’m like Drummer Guy and know that being alone wasn’t much fun either and while I would be fine, I would recover eventually, on my own I really worry about how Ray would deal with it.
You may be ready to move on and if so, I hope you find happiness but if you can find the something missing, you could find your dream all over again. That would be cool too.
@ S. Well in my case I wasn’t the one that decided it, she did but I can tell you what caused it. After the death of my parents I went to a bad place mentally & really withdrew from everybody & every thing. She did try to get me to reconnect with her. I latter realized the damage I had done & tried to correct it but it was too late. Also she just decided about that time she didn’t want to be married. I honestly can’t blame her though. She deserved better than an emotionally distant husband. When I say I shut down I REALLY shut down. But I learned from my mistakes & do everything I can not to repeat them. A few years latter she told me that she realized it was a mistake but by then I had met my current beloved. So I guess it was too late on my part by then. But I do understand where you are coming from but always recommend as Alisa says TRY EVERYTHING to keep it going. Divorce is really painful.
I can tell you something that was helpful in my current marriage that may be of help. As most here know a little over 6 years ago my beloved was diagnosed with Liver Disease. This changed EVERYTHING about her. It effected her looks, her personality, her attitude, sex went away & I could go on & on. Almost overnight the woman I married was gone. At first this caused me to pull back. I was overwhelmed & confused. Resentments built up at having to take over everything & wanting that woman I married back. So it may be some of what you are going through minus the illness.
What I had to do was get counseling for myself to learn how to deal with everything. I also made a CHOICE to rekindle the old spark again. So it can be rekindled. It required some major effort on my part but I had to focus on all the wonderful things that make her her. Make list of the things I love about her & a LOT of different things a good counseler can help you with. The first one I went to just proclaimed my “right to be happy & leave her”. So I found another. In my case she didn’t ask for any of this & surely didn’t do anything to deserve me leaving. My divorce was very amiacible but still VERY painful. I don’t care to repeat that so I made the choice to rekindle things. It may be hard but the pain of divorce is MUCH harder. Anyway I didn’t mean to ramble. I hope that helps.
S, I feel you on not knowing when it’s done. But, Joanne is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT — when you no longer have HOPE. I think one must be careful not to fall into wishful thinking vs. hope. But when you just don’t care anymore, I think that’s it, as well.
It would be great if there were OBVIOUS signs that our relationships were over or provided us reasons to walk.
With my current situation, which feels like a loop of ‘Groundhog Day’ sometimes, I have reminded myself that we are two different people with different experiences and ways of viewing the world. Counseling did help. Reframing your thoughts is tremendous, although tedious. But it stops your mind from going to the negative places and staying there.
If you have hope, a partner who is willing to hear and understand you, AND make the changes WITH you, you still have a shot.
However, I know it’s very difficult to stay positive when you feel burned out and just tired. It’s a difficult situation in which to find yourself. But we have to choose to stay or bail.
@S, we feel like we are missing that THING that makes our relationships feel comfortable, right and easier. It’s starting to feel like work. I understand that relationships are work, but when is it more hassle than it’s worth?
*I* am still struggling with this? For me, the good is good, but I’m not sure if it’s good enough. I’m ok w/ being alone, so I don’t have that issue. I have no kids and don’t plan on having any, so that’s not an issue either.
I like him, but I’m just not sure I love him because of things that have happened between us and because of our differences. He is madly in love & thinks our differences are an asset. To me, I feel like I don’t allow myself to open up anymore because I remember what it felt like when I did and got burned (and this is MY reaction to our disagreements). No, he’s not a bad guy. He does love me and would hang the moon for me. Thus, I feel very guilty sometimes because I’m not sure our values mesh enough for ME to be happy with him.
So I take it one day at a time and try to grow in my appreciation and grace for him because he is a blessing to me. Schizophrenic, yes…LOL! YIKES!
Everyone-Thank you so much for your thoughts and support. It really does help to have a community of people who “get it” and can reply without judgment.
@DG-I think you’ve totally nailed it as to how I feel. More, and more I feel without hope that things can turn around, but like you, I feel schizophrenic still. I relate to every single thing that you said.
Thanks again everybody. Your words do help.
@ S and DG I have been where you are and did jump the fence as it were. Although we had some significant value differences we were generally very compatible and had a good lifestyle. I disagree that “Hope” is a very good indicator because for me hope came and went quite regularly.
I wish Alisa’s blog had been around when I was having my troubles. I have love in my life now but I have lost a lot as well. When marriages are vulnerable like yours are anything can cause the end to come suddenly (like in Drummer Guy’s case, the death off his parents). My advice is to stop focusing on love and whether or not it is going to work and start working on you. Do a life stock-take, work out what you want your life to look like in 5 years time and start working towards it. Having romantic love in your life is only part of the equation.
Very well stated everybody. S I do wish you the best. I know these times can be difficult. I don’t know how long you have struggled with everything & that would be helpful. I think every marriage goes through it’s “in & out of love” phases. Personally I think in most cases those times can be overcome but it takes a lot of time & effort. Everybody is spot on about getting individual counseling. After doing that post divorce my first wife now wishes she would have stayed & worked it out. She made her decision all to fast and latter regreted it. Even she tells me I was a good man which she discovered is hard to come across. So if this hasn’t been going on for a really long period of time perhaps it can be salvaged. I do pray so but only you can know that.
I can tell you this. It is SCARY OUT THERE!!! LOL
After my divorce I dated quite a few before finding my beloved. At first I was that “I’ll never marry again” guy but shallow physical relationships leave one feeling unfulfilled. When I did start to desire someone to share my life with I discovered just how hard it is to find quality people to do that with. I ran across every form of psychosis & neurosis out there…. lol It was a nightmare with more insaine jealousy, drunks, abusive, self centered, controlling etc types than you can imagine. & that was just the first 3 dates..LOL. Just kidding on that but it’s a loony bin out there…lol I say a lot of this in jest but there is a lot of truth to it also. At that age (I was just turning 40) there were lot’s of recently divorced females but I discovered that most were for good reason. NOBODY COULD LIVE WITH THEM….HA! 
Now I know we shouldn’t stay only because we don’t want to be alone but I am actually serious when I say it can be a consideration. I also think everybody goes through a grass is greener phase. But if we have a quality spouse but have lost that spark it is a LOT easier to rekindle that than it is to buy a new candle
Anyway you & your hubby will be in the thoughts of my beloved & I. Now I do tend to be one of those who always advocates working it out if there is any hope of doing so. But as stated only you can know that & decide. Best of luck.
Many Blessings
S- I agree with you about working on yourself, I have been coming to that conclusion also in my life. Ray is becoming more and more distant and I think some of it may just be that I am trying so hard to make it right that it is just to much pressure on him. Marriage is work but it isn’t a coal mine of work and that is where we are right now.
I am backing off abit, I still have hope and just it spikes and wanes but it is there and I keep coming back to the same questions “Would I be OK if I never saw him again?”
I am going on with my life and working on me, my hobbies, interests and such although I have to say (and anyone who has known my blogging on this site can attest), loosing the intimacy is probably the hardest thing for me to deal with. It may be the “deal breaker” for me but I am sitting it out for now.
You all have a lot of great insights and make very valid observations. I have done a great deal of soul searching on this one, been working on myself for a long time and been unhappy in this relationship for several years now. We have been married for 17 years, and while we have experienced ups and downs, this situation is out of the ordinary. While I recognize that we have not done everything possible thing to salvage our marriage, I am just so unhappy that I am having a hard time really seeing the validity in continuing. I know that I am the only person who can decide for me, but as you all know, it is such a struggle to know for sure. I commend all of you who have stayed and worked things out. I just don’t know if I can. My husband is a good man, he cares deeply for me, but it doesn’t feel like enough. I also think that he deserves and opportunity to find something that I can not give him right now. I understand the risk of being alone and that divorce can be excruciating, which is why I struggle with this. We no longer have a partnership, a friendship, etc. I am annoyed by just about everything he does. For all I know, I am the problem here, not him. I just don’t know if staying is settling and I don’t want to regret that I didn’t give us both a chance at happiness without each other. Argh!
Sorry, that above post says L, but it is actually me, S.
S, please hang in there. I know what you mean about the guilt. Some days are better than others, but…If you could pinpoint what it is that you want, you too Joanne, is it the fire you used to feel in the beginning? Is it ‘oneness’? Is it feeling truly connected to someone? As you know, I struggle with this too. At the end of the day, I guess I want to feel the fireworks like I did at the start. But, that can’t last and shouldn’t. Maybe we are unexcited about ourselves and that is what we are projecting onto our relationships. Drummer Guy is right — we have to figure out how to rekindle the flame. How is the $64K question. At the end of the day, though, if we stay and don’t show gratitude, acceptance, support, appreciation, love and friendship, we are truly doing the wrong thing by our partners. We should let them go. They deserve to have someone who can give them all that and more…
DG- I am really trying hard to hold on, it is like a daily victory right now. I read the book “The Five Love Languages” and it had a test in it for Ray and I to do to see if we were each speaking a different love language. The premise is that we each receive and give love in 5 primary categories. My love language is physical his is nurturing and giving . Sounds wonderful but for Ray he gives me love by making my lunch or doing laundry or cooking dinner while I feel love (Receive love) by intimacy. So even though we know this and I have started to show him love in his language so he can’t possibly feel I don’t love him, he is not reciprocating.
End result is not only do I feel like my husband doesn’t want me, I also have to grapple with the idea that he knows what I need and just doesn’t want to see to my needs.
I agree with Alisa who said in a previous post that 1 person + 1 person shouldn’t equal one whole person but we should be enhancing both of us to at least a 2.
L- Familiarity breeds contempt, I’ve told Ray more than once, don’t give me only your unshaven, sloppy side but approach me as if you still feel the need to impress me, because you do and I try to do the same for him. Why is it we put on our best appearance for total strangers but not for the most important person in our lives.
By the way DG- I am married to Ray for 15 years and I still feel the fireworks everytime I see him, I think that is why he has the power to hurt me so much.
I know Alisa won’t be doing another post for about two weeks but I hope we all still continue to communicate here and hopefully help to keep each other lifted up.
Did I click the right box/ Need to put this up & see if it comes out
Good it did..lol. I have been reading all the comments & have real empathy for those struggling. I have been through a lot of what S, DG, Joanne & Ray & several others are currently going through. Like many here I was married to a wonderful man for 16 years. I wasn’t getting everything I wanted out of my marriage so I left. I lived under the mantra of ” I have the right to be happy” & “he should be with somebody who would love him the way he deserved to be loved”. It was a HUGE mistake.
I discovered the problem wasn’t him it was me. Here I had a really good man who loved & adored me in every way. I also discovered from friends in marriages of 25+years that every one of them went through exactly the same thing between the 15-20 year mark. I discovered that every marriage goes through this exact same thing. Call it the 7-15 year itch or what ever but it is normal. The friends I had who did like myself after this happened all regretted it. They also had “good men” but thought they would be happier single. All their kids, grown or still at home were devestated & started to seriously resent them for leaving their dad when he did nothing to deserve it.
My personal advice is if you have a wonderful loving husband at home do whatever you need to do to as Drummer Guy said rekindle that relationship before jumping ship. The friends I have who stuck out the bad times all are so happy they did. All of them who didn’t regret it to this day. Personally I would give anything to go back & change my decision. After a few years he did find somebody else & so it is too late. The grass IS NOT greener I can promise you that.
Also like Drummer Guy I have found finding a “quality” person incredibly difficult. I am a very attractive female with a really kind, loving personality. My friends can’t believe I am still single. I have dated a lot of men but it really is scary out there. I have just resigned myself to being single for the rest of my life. There may be some good men out there & if one comes along great but after experiencing single life I am not looking for it anymore.
I realize that each of you have to make your own decisions but PLEASE think it over carefully. Look at every option other than divorce before you leap. Get counseling for yourself. 99% of the time the problem can be found & fixed with self examination. Think of it this way. If I have a “quality man” (Drummer Guy hit it right on the head) then who needs work, me or him? If he has done nothing to deserve this then why would I put him through the pain? Yes he does deserve somebody to love him the way he should be. Why can’t that be me? Lastly if he is a good man & good husband why leave? They really are a rare find.
Hopeless Romantic- WOW! I am so sorry for where you are and I thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. I keep that mantra in the back of my head all the time, that is why I haven’t been able to leave. We keep working on it trying different things all the time. Thank you for sharing.
did you know you can eat the tail of a shrimp, i’ve done it, i’m still alive to tell the tail… err tale!!
@ johanne – I am writing this comment as I read the list above, I think that you and Ray might benifit from the book “5 love Languages.” he sounds like an ‘acts of service guy (I’m that person in my marriage) and you sound like a ‘physical touch’ gal (that’s my husband in my marriage) I thought the book really shed some light on how to better express our love so that the other was getting the message we were sending. – not to say that we are perfect -we are by now means perfect… but it was a very helpful tool for us.
@johanne – i just read on, to see that you have read that book. like i said, my husband and i have opposite roles of you and ray. so let me tell you that physical connection is a difficult love language to express (for me). I try to convey love to my husband by caressing, goosing, hugging, kissing – he longs for sexual intimacy with penetration. and for me, since that is a very… [i can't think of the right word] … you know, i have to let him in, literally. And that’s a very hard thing sometimes when I am having my own internal struggles. I’m not rejecting my husband sexually because i know that is how he receives love, and i’m with-holding… i’m trying with smaller gestures – that to him don’t always add up to the same as sex. it’s like pennies versus $100 bills.
I will confess i am guilty of refusing his help (how i receive love) when i am mad. and refusing to let him touch me (how he gives love) until i cool off. <~he thinks a hug will calm me, like it does him – but it just fuels the fire!!!
@drummer guy – you said "the same values on MAJOR issues such as religion, child rearing, financial priorities, family, sex etc then you probably should not get married or you will be setting yourself up for some major conflict. Especially if you can’t agree on how to raise your children, sex & financial priorities." and i think that is right on the money! my husband and I are both pseudo-non-religious(believe in something bigger than ourselves, but are not able to pinpoint what that is), so we agree. We have learned together, the hard way, lessons about money, spending and savings… so we agree. but we butt heads on child rearing frequently. I am a certified teacher, i have studied and worked with children for 5+ years, I believe that my way is a better more theory/study based approach – and I want to have my husband follow my lead. HOWEVER when i feel i am making a suggestion – he feels i am chastising, i am bruising his ego i guess. and he is frustrating me to no end because he purposefully ignores what he thinks are chastising commands to prove his own point that I cannot tell him what to do. we often don't agree on what's best for our daughter.
This discussion has been fantastic!
notify button, oops.
I come from a military, conservative, farming family where authority is king. And while I am not conservative, I definitely tend to do what I am told, like obey traffic laws, do what my boss tells me, believe what I read, etc. It’s how I was raised. I will stand in line and will also take it for granted that when our car dealer says there are no courtesy cars available for us while our car is being services. My husband is the complete opposite. Raised to question authority every step of the way. No standing in line, no accepting what people say in the first place. Total opposite. We often find ourselves in situations where we are arguing about this point, but usually we can agree to disagree and that we are never going to agree, but if we just respect the fact that we have different points of view, we should be okay…however it is not automatic and something we are constantly working on!
Your very welcome Joanne & Ray. I do wish the very best for you two. Just knowing you are working on it is very rewarding in itself. Have faith, patience & love & you will get there. All to often I see many women (I say women because that is my entire social circle & coworkers) make terrible decisions under the mantra of “I have the right to be happy”. I agree that everybody has the right to be happy. It is after all in our nations Declaration of Independence. It should not however be at the expense of others. I know in today’s society many of my views may be considered old fashioned or not P.C. A couple of my friends had affairs on their husbands under that mantra. The end result was devistated families on both sides. Instead of being happy they ended up alone (the affairs never work out long term).
I hope I don’t sound harsh. I am sorry if I do. I am hoping what I am writing today will help some of my fellow women (Girl Power Rocks
LOL ) avoid making some quick decisions that will end up really hurting people, including themselves. I have never known anybody who toughed out the difficult times regret it. I have however known many who had good husbands, didn’t work it out, & ALL of them regret it. In my case I think the worst thing was my kids will probably never respect me again. Their dad did everything he could to not make them think less of me. He still speaks kindly of me to them despite what I did. He try’s to teach them to respect my choices. I told them at the time that I divorced their father because I was not happy & after all “I had the right to be happy”. But all they knew was I really hurt their dad when he did nothing to deserve it. Maybe someday I can earn their respect again & I am sure we can repair damage over time. I am just sad that my “right to be happy” hurt others so badly & was so costly.
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