How to Tell if Your Relationship Can Be Salvaged
Three years ago, when I was contemplating whether to ask for a divorce, I met a good friend for dinner. She had been divorced and remarried. I asked her, “How did you know when it was time to give up?”
She said, “When he stopped trying.”
At the time, it seemed like a good test. If my husband was willing to sincerely try, then I would stay. If not, I would go.
He was willing.
As our marriage slowly improved, his willingness to try was always one part of my litmus test of whether our marriage was worth saving.
The other part of my test was this, “Is my marriage getting better?” I’d rated it a 2 on the misery scale when we’d started (assuming 1 was when things went from wishing him dead to actually doing him in). Our marriage did not improve every day. We took two steps forward and one step back over and over again. But the one constant was always this: whenever I rated my marriage on that scale, it was consistently higher than a 2. We weren’t necessarily happy, but we were improving.
After 4 months, I rated us at an 8. A few months later we got in a good knockdown, drag out. For about a week I revised that rating and brought it down to a 5. Then we had a heart to heart, and I gave us a 7.
Now, three years later, I’d say we’re at a 9.5.
The point is: we’ve never dipped all the way back down to 2.
So that’s the best litmus test I can give you. Can your marriage be salvaged?
- Is your spouse willing to work with you to make things better?
- Once you start working on your marriage, does it improve?
If you answer those questions with a “yes” and a “yes,” then it can probably be salvaged. If either one is a “no,” chances are strong that it cannot.
What do you think? If you’ve saved a bad marriage, how did you know that your marriage had potential? If you’ve left a bad marriage, how did you know that it was time to give up hope?
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Tags: bad marriage
May 15th, 2010 at 10:50 pm
About 10 months ago, I’d say my marriage was also a 2. Now I’d give it an 8. I asked myself over and over ‘is this marriage worth it?’. Although our marriage is far from perfect now, I did come to the realization several months ago that it is indeed worth saving.
I asked myself the following question: ‘how likely am I to find a more suitable partner and have a better marriage if I divorce and re-marry?’. I concluded that although we have our issues, our core values, beliefs, temperaments, and personalities are so well-matched that I’d have difficulty finding some better suited to me (and vice versa).
I also thought a lot about all the things I’d lose were we to divorce-our kids would have to be shuffled back and forth between their mommy and daddy, our relationships with each others parents & families would be destroyed, our home life (which is mostly fun and peaceful) would be GONE. While the problems felt overwhelming and are to some extent unfixable, were they worth sacrificing all that? I decided no.
May 15th, 2010 at 10:58 pm
I asked for a divorce when I realized he couldn’t see the double standard he’d been wielding for the past several years. I accepted that -I- didn’t want to try anymore because I felt like it never changed anything. I didn’t wish him any ill will, I just didn’t want to be manipulated anymore.
Newlywed & Unemployed´s last blog ..I Wish I Had Known..
May 16th, 2010 at 9:27 am
When my hubby and I had a heart-to-heart, he said he didn’t think it was so bad as to give up. That was when I started seeing our marriage in a different light.
I gave up hope on my first two marriages after the continuous “no change”. No matter what I did or didn’t do, nothing changed, except my willingness to be in an unhappy marriage.
May 16th, 2010 at 11:15 am
I think you’ve got that right. If you’ve chosen a partner that is willing to try, to change, to compromise there’s always hope. Marriage counseling is what helped us move from a 3 to–at the moment–a 10 in just under a year. We were both willing to try, change, and compromise but we really couldn’t understand each other until we worked with our therapist on better communication techniques.
May 16th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
i wonder how you know he is sincerely trying –
for instance, when i present a possible solution, he tries – and i feel like it helps and for a week or so woo hoo good times rate us a 5… then since its going well, he quits. and things slide back down to a 3…
May 16th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Marissa–that’s a good question. I need to ponder. During the entire project and since, I was doing most of the work. I was reading the books. I was being the big person, etc. But I could always tell that he was changing. I think when we’re looking at behavior change, it’s really easy to think of it as an all or nothing. We want a problem to stop instantly, for instance. But it takes someone a while to totally stop committing one behavior or to start doing another. So sometimes progress is being made but we don’t notice because we only pay attention to the slip ups. I’m not saying this is the case with you, but it was (and still is) definitely true with me. Whenever my husband talks to me in “the voice,” for instance, I have to consciously remind myself that he hardly ever does it anymore and that he’s made a huge improvement in that area.
Ok, so back to your question. I think I always knew he was trying because he never said NO to anything I suggested. I’d say, “let’s try this silly hugging this” or “can we practice the speaker listener technique tonight?” and he was always up for it. There was only one exception to that rule and I really caught him on a bad night.
Alisa Bowman´s last blog ..How to Tell if Your Relationship Can Be Salvaged
May 16th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
When he had a psychotic break, thought he was the Buddha and then ran off with a blond to California I knew it was over. Sadly, not joking or exaggerating here. Sometimes, there isn’t so much a string of decisions as a 2×4 to the head.
Frugal Kiwi´s last blog ..Moving Tips: Create a Staging Area
May 16th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Another great post Alisa. It shows the importance of two people working together to make a happy life. Marriage can’t be a one sided affair. I have seen cases where one side started by doing most or all of the work but latter became a two person effort. I also think that even if our marriage is strong as that we can still do things to make it stronger. I guess that would be considered growth as a couple & as a individual.
In my first marriage I knew it was over when the wife said. I don’t want to be married any more. Not just to me but married period. Now I had done a lot back then to push her away after the death of my parents. I withdrew from everybody around me. So I imagine her decision was when I shut everybody out. I did eventually see what I had done, got help & corrected it but in her mind she had already given up. So I accept a BIG part of the responsibilty. I did learn from my mistakes & have vowed not to repeat them. One of the reasons I come to this blog is to be the best husband I can be. While my marriage is strong & has actually grown stronger lately I want to continue to grow as an individual & most importantly as a husband.
May 16th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Oh & in the case of the first one it wasn’t a casual divorce. I attempted everything to mend us but the wife decided she didn’t want to & filed for divorce. Once again in large part was my fault but I guess you can’t force somebody to stay with you if they really want out. Still she was a great person & I hope she finds the happiness I have with my beloved today
May 16th, 2010 at 7:48 pm
Alisa, what if things improve for a while, then get worse for a while, then improve, then get worse, in a never ending cycle? Sometimes I feel like my marriage is a bad car ride. We keep ending up in the ditch. When we’re in the ditch, we both work hard to get the car out of the ditch, then we’re driving along again, and everything is great. But a little further down the road we’re sliding into the ditch again…
May 16th, 2010 at 9:25 pm
Thank you for this post. The rating scale you described is particularly helpful to me. I’m at a 1.5 in my marriage right now. As for the questions though, those ar a bit trickier b/c the willingness of my spouse to work on things, REALLY work on them, fluctuates. Often his words do NOT meet his actions. He make promises to meet certain needs or do things to foster closeness, but then doesn’t follow through or only partially does so. We are going to counseling, but he often will argue that he is ONLY going for me &/or that I’m the one who needs therapy. We’ve been working on our marriage for more of it than we were happy. There are glimmers of improvement, but at this point I’m not sure if they are actual improvements or just manipulation.
Can anyone else suggest more questions to self-evaluate your marriage?
May 16th, 2010 at 9:47 pm
When my first marriage was “in the toilet” I went to a counsellor. My husband was supposed to come with me but he said I was the one who needed help. That should’ve been my first clue but I was not objective.
The counsellor suggested I keep a journal for two months then sit down and read what I wrote. If it felt hopeless then it probably was.
Also the relationship was abusive and I was having trouble seeing it as such. I had been subjected to a great deal of information about how bad I was as a human, mother and wife, I started to believe it.
So I thought, what the heck. I started a journal and read it two months later. OMG I was dumbstruck at what I was subjected to and what I had put up with. I left my husband one week later.
Maureen´s last blog ..
May 17th, 2010 at 3:22 am
I don’t think you can give up just because your spouse states at some point they are not prepared to work on it. They could be in despair about the situation, sure it’s beyond hope, but that doesn’t mean that opinion is beyond changing. If they see you working on it, see your determination to try and rebuild the marriage, they may then change their mind and decide to join in the effort. One “I’m not interested in working on this” does not have to mean it’s over.
Also, it may get worse before it gets better. A couple of posts ago the message was “Try Everything”. This, correctly, implies that some of the things you try won’t work, and may even make things worse (in my case, trying too hard, too desparately, to fix things, and putting pressure on my wife that drove her in the opposite direction). So it doesn’t have to be the end if you look back and think “I’ve been working on this two months and it is worse now than it was then” – maybe you’ve been trying the wrong approach. If you replace “two months” with “a year”, then that may be a stronger arguement for calling it quits!
BTW, I’m still probably no better than a 5 after over 2 1/2 years of trying. But this time last year we were talking to lawyers, and were probably on a 1.5, so there is progress…
May 17th, 2010 at 6:06 am
Richard– you make an important point. There is a gray area between knowing for sure it’s broken and knowing whether it’s salvageable. It’s a period of time when you don’t know which is true and no discernible test can tell you. During that time, whatever you do is a complete leap of faith. My marriage improved rather quickly. I keep forgetting that not all marriages have the same trajectory.
I’m curious, though, how long did your “worse” stage last? (The initial one).
Alisa Bowman´s last blog ..How to Tell if Your Relationship Can Be Salvaged
May 17th, 2010 at 6:30 am
Hi Alisa,
Well, it’s fluctuated pretty wildly now for approaching 3 years! I guess the “worst” stage (at least on a 10-point scale of rescuablility) came over the last summer, when we were working out the logistics of separation, me moving out, division of assets and income etc. That didn’t come until 1 1/2 years after our problems kicked off. But that didn’t really feel the worst – by that point it felt more like quiet resignation to the inevitable. It was the bigger fluctutations of the first year (or at least the ‘down’ bits of those fluctuations) that really hurt.
But I am stubborn and determined to stick this through, and rescue what can be rescued. I’ve had pain, and put up with and forgiven betrayals, that I suspect would have had most people out of the door far earlier. In good conciense I doubt I’d advise anyone else to keep going as long as I have!
May 17th, 2010 at 7:17 am
Hmm, I guess I would rate mine about 3-4 depending on the week.
I decided in November of ’09, that I would give this 1 year to do some serious repair work and she agreed too. Yes, I said it out loud that things were going to have to change. Yes, the way I said it was probably wrong. The relationship status, however, was pretty bad and I didn’t think she would get that unless I said something pretty big.
Things have gotten a little better, but I’m still doing most of the work and conceding alot. I fuess we’ll see where I am at the end of the year and take it from there.
May 17th, 2010 at 8:40 am
I’ve read some of the posts and will go back and finish the rest but I needed to comment. Ray and I have been in counseling for the last 4 months but we had a really big setback last Friday and are seriously considering weather we will just end it this time. I understand that as long as we are both TRYING we should give it a go but sometimes that isn’t the problem. I know now that while Ray is TRYING to be more responsive to me and my wants he will never look at me with any kind of want of his own. We are back to the “Can a marriage survive with little or no sex?” question and I have to tell you almost worse than knowing your husband doesn’t want or desire you in the way you want or desire him is to know that he is making an effort at it, Faking it. I think my ego and pride have taken as many hits at this point as they can take and for any self preservation I may be able to hang on to I need to leave.
I wish it didn’t make a difference to me and I could celebrate his TRYING but I can’t fool myself into thinking it is OK, believe me I’ve been TRYING. I think intimate, passion type love can’t be created, it either exists or it doesn’t so this isn’t Ray’s fault that he just doesn’t feel it. It may be more my fault that I can’t inspire it.
I guess that is how you know when it is over. When you just don’t want to try so hard all the time anymore.
May 17th, 2010 at 8:54 am
Sorry forgot to hit the email key
May 17th, 2010 at 11:52 am
Joanne you are really being kind of hard on yourself. I don’t know Ray or how old he is it could just be that his drive is deminishing period with age. It is a normal part of aging for us men. It is also very easily addressed medically. I doubt it is that he desires you less in particular it is just less desire due to physical changes we men go through. There is a myth out there that says that men ALWAYS have a strong sex drive for our entire life. I can tell you from someone who up until very recently had a TREMENDOUS drive it has wained a little over the last couple of years. Not because I find my beloved less desirable but my body has changed with age. Keep in mind I was a man who would literally would be happy with sex every day & sometimes multiple times in a day. That is no longer the case & I was like that up until about age 46.
I used to think it was due to my beloveds illness & the lack of intamacy we experienced because of it. But after she went into remission & was able to be intimate I was stunned to find out I didn’t desire it as much as I used to. Sometimes forcing it on our part is not neccesaraly a bad thing. It does show that he cares for you deeply & still wants to make you happy & that is a good thing. As I said on today’s post (different words but same meaning) many times those of the fairer sex try to read things into our words & actions that just aren’t there. That isn’t a put down on women it is just the way were are wired differently. We are just not that complicated in our thoughts & words. When we say A we really don’t mean A1-A2 & A3. Yourself & Ray may want to look into seeing a doctor & see if he has started having hormone reduction or physical changes. It honestly could be that simple. The 2 of you have come so far which in itself shows the desire to keep the marriage working. Just try EVERYTHING
. Best of luck my friends 
May 17th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Dear Drummer Guy;
I appreciate your kind words. Unfortunately after I said “I do” Ray just hasn’t been to interested in me physically. That has been 15 years now and a constant problem between us. It really is quite the merry go round. Ray is now 47, so it really is just a matter of not being able to turn my own husband on, he already has the blue pill just relly isn’t very interested. I think for the first year while we dated he of course was putting his best foot, so to speak, forward because I have never hidden my Libido from him. Now if I make the suggestion we get horizontal, he will actually seem put upon. I have tried to put my needs into perspective with all the good and wonderful parts of my marriage but it just isn’t going to get any better. At this point I feel so undesirable that I don’t even feel female anymore so I’m not leaving to find anyone else, believe me, I’ll never put myself into the position of being rejected again. I no longer have much of an ego but I still have a survival instinct and I think my fight or flight system is saying run like hell.
May 17th, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Joanne,
I just had to comment on your last comment to Drummer Guy.
My hubby’s sex drive has gone to nearly non-existent. At first I thought it was because of me. Then a few posters here let me know it’s not me. It’s his issue and his alone. Thankfully, he is willing to talk about it. But he’s not willing to do much about it. And he won’t take the little blue pill.
We have sex about once about every one to three months. Not nearly enough for me. But when we finally do get down to business, I’m always more than completely satisfied. So there are no complaints there.
Here’s what I’ve done not to feel rejected. I don’t ask anymore. On occasion I’ll hint that I’m in the mood. But I don’t just flat out ask for intimacy. I let him do all the initiating. It keeps me from feeling rejected. Because once I feel rejected I’m turned off for a very, very long time. Which means if he initiates, I’m still hurt and not interested.
Also, I take joy in the other types of intimacy we have. Hugging, kissing, playing, laughing, etc. No, it’s not the same. But it reminds me that just because we aren’t having sex doesn’t mean we don’t have a close and loving relationship.
Also, my counselor told me that not having sex is NOT an indicator that the relationship is failing. Everyone has their own sexual drive. And spouses don’t always jive on that point.
My husband’s sex drive went from wanting it daily to what it is today and almost over night. It’s been diminished for nearly three years now (we’ll be married 5 years in October). I only just came to terms with it in the last 6 months.
Don’t run, if the rest of your relationship is strong and loving. There is more to a relationship than sex.
Get your toy that you won and take care of business yourself. Not the same, I know, but it helps from going crazy. My toy has come in handy on a few occasions.
May 17th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Man Kathy, I wish I could react as well as you have really, I’ve tried but it is really so important to me that I am going crazy. My girlfriends, with the best of intentions because “everyone loves Raymond” have suggested I keep the marriage and just get those needs met elsewhere. I thought long and hard about it but you know it isn’t an any port in the storm kind of thing for me so I think a fling is off the table. Toys are a plus but even they aren’t the same after a while as seeing the look of desire in your own husbands eye.
I’ll say it again, it isn’t Ray’s fault that his drive is low but unfortunately it is a very important part of my well being. I know this. I’m not trying to be small or immature honestly. I don’t know any better way to explain it, I obviously haven’t been successful yet and I’ve really started to think of myself as one hell of a freak for not being able to get past this.
You know the old saying that if enough people tell you your dead you ought to lay down you’re starting to stink the place up? Well, I’m use to the idea that most of the women out there don’t get what a big deal this is to me but that doesn’t negate the reality for me that it is.
May 17th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Kathy your post made me smile. There was a time when my beloved & I used to use toys together & both enjoyed it. If hubby is open to it try that. You & he may be surprised at what a turn on it is for us to see our wife being turned on. Especially if we are the ones doing it. Guess that is why I like doing well… you can use your imagination. Then again that may cause the toy to come out lol
You may want to try a differnt approach to the hubby as well. Maybe a well thought out non confrontational letter. That way you have time to really choose your words & keep out any anger or frustration. It worked for me but everybody probably reacts differently. I was able to express how I felt to her in a non confrontational way without slipping up & saying something she would view as me being upset. It didn’t hurt that it was a very romantic letter for her also. Now I send romantic letters at least once a month. More than that she would probably take as being canned & not heartfelt. As a man he may appreciate both romantic & risque. Okay so a little raunchy but hey your married so it’s okay lol. We are just more tuned in that way. Make sure you know he would like it though. He may not be open & you know him best.
All of my marriage my beloved has had the lower sex drive but I also think mine used to be abnormally high. I’m 48 now so…not as high lol. For almost 5 years when my beloved’s illness progressed it made intimacy impossible. So like you I had to learn to appreciate non sexual intimacy. I am so glad I did. I am married to a wonderful woman & she wasn’t rejecting me she was just very sick. So it happens for a lot of different reasons with different people. Your post rings very true. There is more to marriage than sex & more than one kind of intimacy. I really missed it & it wasn’t the same but I am glad I cherish all the other great things about my bride. Up until the last few days she was in remission so we were able to reconnect.
Now she is very sick again & back under hospice. But I sure am glad we had that time we did & she will still have good days so it isn’t all lost. We just have to again find other ways to connect when she does have really bad days. I love her deeply & wouldn’t trade my life for anything.
May 17th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Drummer Guy; You are a wonderful man and I am sure your wife feels blessed.
May 17th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
Firstly just like to say that I really enjoy your blog and while it may not be the number 1 marriage blog (yet), it is the one I enjoy the most.
Sometimes just having the “are you willing to work on it conversation” is a lot of work in itself.
Here’s how that conversation went for my partner and his X.
Her ” What is the one thing I could do to make this better”
Him “Cuddle me” (she never did, not much anyway)
Her “I want us to go to marriage counseling”
Him “No that would make me too sad”
Her “Well if you wont work on it it’s over”
He is now my partner and I cuddle him to bits. I also counsel him everyday and he copes (just).
May 17th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Joanne, trust me, I did not react well in the beginning of his sexual interest demise. I was hurt and I was hurtful to hubby. Counseling did a world of wonder for me. Also, having female issues (horribly too frequent menses) did not help the situation at all. The female issues have been resolved. But hubby’s sex drive is still not what I would prefer. But there is so much other things better in our relationship since I got counseling, I’ll deal with little to no sex.
I couldn’t get sex outside of my marriage if a gun was held to my head. I just don’t work that way.
DrummerGuy, I’m OK with the way it is sexual. It’s not ideal, but the alternative is not an option (ie: divorce or an affair). We have a good, strong, healthy marriage now that I’m done with my counseling. And just maybe when hubby gets a virtual clone of himself at work, he may have more energy to have some sexual fun with his wife. In the meantime, I’m not complaining and I’m not being rejected. He definitely lets me know he still finds me attractive and that he would like to be having more sex.
When I won the sex toy a few months ago, that’s how I got hubby to have some sex (first time in about 3 months – oh honey, you want to try this new toy? – worked wonders). The next time I offered to pull the toy out and he said no, and he rocked my world.
Your wife is very lucky to have you.
May 17th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Thanks Joanne. Actually I am the one who is blessed. So sorry to hear things are rough. I can empathize. For almost 5 years sex wasn’t possible for me at all. So I feel your frustration. I also felt rejected, unwanted & ran the whole gammet of emotions. I was the only one who could finally convince me that she wasn’t rejecting me & only you can convince yourself of that. I had to make myself understand that it was a medical condition that was the cause & we can’t help what our bodies do. That was really hard to do. It is human nature to feel rejected because society says we should all want sex all the time. Just look at T V. Everything is sex. Shows, Commercials, Music etc.
I also had “friends” who suggested the same. As a drummer in a rock band their is no shortage of willing partners but like you I cherish my vows way to much for that. The good news is, in her case she went into remission. Sounds like the two of you are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to drive. Actually that is very common with couples. I don’t know what the answer is, if there is one. Only yourself & your hubby can work on that. In my case we were also on the opposite ends early in the marriage, before she became ill. Like most couples it was often & awsome at first then dwindled. Just normal I guess. Except I was the one who had a REALLY high drive so you are not alone. A lot of people have very high sex drives & it isn’t always men. Try to understand when it is a case of one having a high drive & the other doesn’t he isn’t rejecting you it is a medical thing. It doesn’t change your drive but could change your feeling of rejection. Perhaps you could try some counseling to understand your feelings & address them. Okay I’m finished preaching….I promise lol..Just kidding
Whatever the outcome I wish you both the best.
May 17th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
Drummer Guy: It is now after 4PM along the Delaware in cloudy NJ and I got through the day thanks to you and Kathy. I understand what you both are saying and believe me I have thought all this. We are now with our third marriage counselor, he has gone to the doctor, and I have everyday reminded myself of what a wonderful man he is because he really is so I get it. There is only one more thing we haven’t tried and I am going to go back to my doctor and ask for a medication she mentioned to diminish my sex drive. Maybe that will save us but for right now I am back on the couch.
May 17th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
Glad to hear it Kathy. Sounds like you two are on strong ground. I am guessing you sought medical help about a low drive. The “little blue pill” doesn’t increase drive it just increases blood flow to allow wood (sorry I just didn’t know a better way to put it & erection just sounds too medical, ha!) Drive is many times more a case of hormones etc. But everybody is different. But yup the toys can be fun yippieee!!! lol Hey we try everything just to keep it fresh type stuff. Toy’s, erotic literture, she really seemed to like that one & made me say uncle..lol & other stuff. But like you we had to find other things to do as well. She can get really sick at times so a good movie & holding hands is nice. Even when it is a chick flick ha! She was even able to go to my bands last show. I think it was because she wanted to meet the guys in REO Speedwagon we were opening for but I’m okay with that. She also saw the groupies hanging out backstage & seriously rocked MY world latter, so I am TOTALLY okay with it..lol. My best to the happy couple.
That Now self confidant Drummer Guy
May 17th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
Good to hear Joanne. Keep on rockin
May 17th, 2010 at 8:50 pm
Joanne, really a pill to diminish your sex drive? What are the side effects?
DrummerGuy, no, hubby hasn’t been to the doctor. We’re not big fan of doctors. We know his cholesterol is high and he is eating flax seed to help with that. Also taking niacin when he remembers. We’re not into drugs to fix ailments. We are both pretty certain that it’s his work load and his cholesterol level. His work load should diminish soon. They sent a guy a formal work offer letter (I’m not a corporate gal, so I don’t know the proper word for that). Hopefully the guy accepts and will start this coming Monday. Yippee!!! Maybe in a month, hubby won’t be working 10 – 12 hour days anymore. And we can take a vacation and his blackberry won’t ring. And with vacation means s e x!
May 17th, 2010 at 9:27 pm
I think this is a daily question, or at least it feels like it sometimes, but I think your two simple questions are great tools to use as a barometer. I love the comments that everyone has left it really makes you feel like you are not alone.
Andi´s last blog ..Sex and The City Paris
May 18th, 2010 at 7:52 am
@ Kathy. Yea I have done the 10-12hr work days myself. Before my bride became so ill we were both working at a job that was 10-12hrs a day 6 days a week. NO FUN. By the time we got home it was watch a little T V & zzzzzzz lol. So glad to hear hubby may have some relief in site. I am sure those hours really wear on him. Shows he is dedicated to being a good husband which is a reward in of itself. You are lucky to have a good husband. From what I hear from female aquatences it is hard to find these days. I always joke & say”hey that’s not true. I know a bunch of good men of strong character. Then again all of them are married”
Anyway glad to hear things are going so well. You can’t put a value on a good marriage. They are priceless.
May 18th, 2010 at 8:10 am
Alisa – i like that answer. thinking on it – he’s never said NO to any suggestion. So I guess like so many other things, I’m tallying the slip ups and failures… shame on me!
I will work harder to remember all the yes’s
and with this new definition and method in mind – i’m still in a ‘worth saving’ marriage! that makes me smile.
May 18th, 2010 at 9:28 am
Snoopy–I’m very late in responding because I wanted to think about your question for a bit. I think you might want to ask yourself, “Why are we in this cycle?” and really think about it. What causes you to regress?
I don’t know if this is true for you, but it was for me. Before I started the official marriage project, I looked at every argument or discussion in isolation. So I would expect one discussion to fix us–and it would seem to for a while. Then we’d slide back into misery.
What’s different now is that I wake up every morning and I look for opportunities to work on my marriage. It’s something conscious that I do every day. So I see is as a lifelong project. I don’t know if that mindset would help you or not, but I thought I’d mention it and see where it led.
May 18th, 2010 at 10:33 am
Kathy about the pill question, I don’t know what pill yet the doctor mentioned it in passing when I told her our “problem” and asked her to check Ray’s prostate thinking that may have been part of the problem. It wasn’t and I dropped the pill thing because who wants to take a pill to lesson their sex drive until of course not getting any is driving you mad. The counselor we were going to said that she could prescribe an anti-depressant that would kill my libido. So maybe that is what the doctor was talking about. I guess I’ll find out next week when I go to the doctor.
I’m going to continue on with the counselor who is a psychologist by myself. I think I’m going to need help getting over the marriage failing but mostly getting over Ray.
May 18th, 2010 at 11:35 pm
Another really good discussion – and an interesting observation you make at the top Alisa when your friend said she knew it was time to stop trying to save her relationship when her husband had stopped trying. My former wife and I really muddled through our marriage for years – I naively thought the marraige was ok but with normal ups and downs, whereas when I look back now she must have had long periods that she wanted to end it but didn’t for whatever reason, and periods when we were making long term plans and she seemed happy.
A few years before the marriage ended I was finally waking up, but foolishly tried to just do what I thought was best to improve things without seeking professional advice. I really ended up being a doormat, and just found that I couldn’t do anything right, and all she noticed were the things she didn’t like, and oblivious to anything positive I did, either emotionally or practically. When I FINALLY gently confronted her with it and said I knew she wasn’t happy, and wanted to know what we could do to improve the marriage, how she felt about me and our marriage, etc, she simply said that she didn’t even want to try and “would’ve been outta here years ago if we didn’t have kids”. We went to counselling just the once, and she said there she didn’t want to try, didn’t see any need to come back, etc, etc, so what do you do.
The best advice I got (from that counsellor) was to lovingly let her go and move on. It’s been a couple of years now and we’re divorced, but I suspect she has had quite a lot of regrets as life hasn’t turned out how she’d expected.
So – a long winded way of saying that I agree – the time to move on is when (over a long period of time) your partner does not want to try and save the relationship.
May 19th, 2010 at 7:52 am
Bern; I understand what you are saying. Life is a cycle of ups and downs and I honestly believed that if I just kept trying that Ray would see how much I love him and want to return that. I think sometimes he even really tried. I think there comes a point though when even with counseling you notice the same problem come up that seem to not get better that you have to decide how much of a factor in your happiness is this and either let it go or leave for both of your sakes. I’ve reached that point and as a testament to how much my husband didn’t invest in this he is going to let me go.
Here is a good question for discussion Alisa, Why isn’t love enough to hold a marriage together? You would think that would be all that was needed.
May 19th, 2010 at 8:12 am
Snoopy along the lines of what Alisa suggested try coming up with things the two of you can do once a day, once a week or what ever needed to keep you both on track. It could be something simple like putting a sign in the home you will both see everyday. Little slogans like “We are worth it” We are a team” things like that. Change them every week to keep them fresh. It may seem silly but it could help keep you focused & serve as a reminder when you start to get side tracked & distracted. Dedicate time to spend focusing on the marriage on a weekly basis. Have a date night every week.
The two of you could come up with your own different excercises & things to do that will keep you on track. Just making that a project to do together may help. Your so right in that it is very easy to get things going well then have them slide back into distructive patterns. Bad habits are just that, habits. Try replacing them with good habits. Do them every week as a couples project. It can be fun & help y’all to stay focused. Anyway just an idea. The two of you can customize it to fit your needs. Hope that helps.
May 19th, 2010 at 8:21 am
Joanne–I’ve been reading your comments and pondering and pondering and pondering. I wish I could say that all of this pondering has led to an epiphany. It hasn’t. In the end, only you know what’s good for you and your marriage (and your life). Your question about love is interesting. I think it’s because we are capable of loving people differently (sexually, agape love, emotionally etc). Sometimes you get most of that in one marital package and everything works out. Sometimes you are missing a big love element and you feel empty because of it.
Alisa Bowman´s last blog ..How to Tell if Your Relationship Can Be Salvaged
May 19th, 2010 at 9:07 am
Alisa- Very well said, I don’t have any answers either, no witty or thought provoking analogies, just alot of lost. Sometimes it is Ok to float in indecision, much better than making the wrong one. I asked Ray last night before we retreated to our separate rooms to imagine himself one year from now, without me, our home and all that entails and picture where he will be and what his life will be and understand he is there only because he couldn’t love me the way I needed to be loved and I couldn’t live with less. I am doing the same thing. We have choices to make but they need to be final choices because I can’t do this merry-go-round anymore.I told him I didn’t believe in ultimatums I think this is more like a verdict.
May 19th, 2010 at 10:00 am
Joanne maybe try this. It is just a suggestion but anyway, ask yourself what are the way’s my husband already shows me he loves me? Then ask yourself what are some ways you would like for him to show you he loves you? See what you come up with. Just an idea.
May 19th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
Drummer Guy; Thanks for your caring. I’ve been doing all that for many years now so far nothing has worked very well.
I am going to sign off of this for awhile, don’t anyone think I don’t appreciate all your thoughts, I really do but I am holding on by a very thin emotional thread right now and need to keep it together so I don’t lose my job or my clients.
Best wishes to all of you.
May 19th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Best wishes to you as well Joanne. I hope I didn’t come off as sounding judgmental. Only you know where you are & what you need. Just trying to be encouraging. I hate to see you sign off for a while but believe me I understand the job thing. We all have to pay the bills. May you find happiness in whatever you choose.
Many Blessings
May 19th, 2010 at 10:30 pm
Joanne – I know this must be unspeakably painful, and all the more frustrating as you feel you’ve tried everything. I do have a couple of thoughts for you – I read somewhere that a key breakdown in relationships is that we usually try to demonstrate love by doing what WE feel makes us feel loved, rather than finding out what the OTHER PERSON needs to feel loved. For example, we might feel love by our nearest and dearest doing ‘acts of service’ – housework, washing the car, etc, etc, whereas they might just be looking for kind words, being touched, and so on. So a key thing to to ask them how they like to be loved, and work towards meeting that need.
My second thought is (along the same lines) is to read a book called “Receiving Love” by Harville Hendrix – this was a real eye-opener for me as it helped me to understand how my former wifes childhood ‘wounds’ have affected how her perception of me and everyone else she has close contact with. In it I came to a much better understanding of myself so I really felt I learnt heaps and grew a tremendous amount by reading it. It really does put some science behind what was happening in my situation and it may do for you as well.
Good luck.
July 12th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
Reading this felt really good and encouraging. Thanks, Alisa.