A Reader Participation Post
This question came in from a reader:
My husband and I have been married for 4 years and have not had sex for 3. This is NOT for lack of MY trying. He has given me numerous varied reasons why he doesn’t want to have sex. I wrote them out and came up with 39 different excuses! We have discussed it MANY times & even seen a counselor, but this has still not improved. I know he realizes that I need sexual attention, but he does nothing but make (unfulfilled) promises. He is not having an affair, but I am ready to leave him & or have one of my own. I am a sexual being & I CANNOT live like this, but I DO want to save our marriage. WHAT DO I DO? — Hopelessly Horny
Wow. Readers? Please be kind. I can feel the controversy brewing and I haven’t even posted this yet.
I’m also conflicted about the right answer here. I want to tell Hopelessly Horny that a marriage is about more than just sex. It’s also about an emotional connection. It’s about support. It’s about touch. It’s about a lot of things. And I’ve heard from quite a few readers here who have celibate marriages, mostly for medical reasons. They’ve told me that a happy marriage can indeed be had even if no hanky panky is going on between the sheets.
That said, sex is the one thing you can do with your spouse that you can’t do with someone else (assuming you aren’t in an open marriage or flagrantly cheating).And assuming the husband doesn’t really have erectile dysfunction or some other medical condition that he is keeping secret from his wife, it seems downright selfish of him to hold out on her for three entire years. And for those of you who are about to accuse me of being sexist, read my past posts. I would say the same thing if he were a she.
Back to the other hand, though, I’m thinking again about the married folks who’ve written to me about their happy but celibate marriages. They’ve been able to make it work. If they can do it, then it begs the question: Is something more global wrong with Hopelessly Horny’s marriage? Maybe the marriage broke first, and then the sex life broke, you know?
Readers, I need your help, okay? These are only two tips I can come up with –and both are hopelessly lame.
* Get a drawer full of sex toys and take pleasure into your own hands. For instance, some sex balls are in order. Read my review about these wonderful devices here. And I would also recommend a Jumping Jack as it looks as if it just might be better than the real thing.
* Examine your marriage and do everything possible to solve the non-sex related problems. It could be that lack of emotional intimacy is triggering the lack of sexual intimacy.
Readers? Got anything that is not quite as lame? Bring it on!
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I would say counseling is definitely needed here. Because there is something going on – I would assume since she said they haven’t had sex in 3 out of 4 years means at some point he was interested in it. Something since then changed. It could be health related (physical or mental) and it should be something that they talk about, separately or together with a professional, to get to the bottom of it. It’s not just about being horny – sex is a very intimate bond with someone, and if you can’t get that bond with your spouse, it will only further separate you.
.-= Kristi´s last blog ..My Favorite 2010 Search & Social Awards Nominees =-.
IMHO good sex is as fundamental to a good marriage as good conversation. And both partners have to work at it sometimes. I’m married 10 years now.
What is the point of a “sexless” marriage? Isn’t that just a roommate?
I’ll be honest and say my last marriage ended largely in part to this exact problem. Part of is was I was working full-time and going to school full-time, and I was just exhausted the entire rest of the time.
But the other part was due to stresses we’d had earlier in the relationship, she stopped respecting me, started openly showing it around me and others, and that completely turned me off from her. She started treating me like a child, and no man wants to have sex with his mother.
Yes, ladies. All the “nagging” and snide comments and not-so-subtle insults will affect the guy’s sex drive later. If you ever find yourself saying “He’s such a child sometimes,” or “I have to act like his mother,” you’re setting yourself up for major issues later. Deal with it NOW, and deal with it with love and more importantly, respect.
So I would say that the answer is YES … something seriously wrong broke in their marriage earlier, and she’s either unaware of it or doesn’t think it relates. But it’s likely not entirely his fault.
I suspect that the writer is oblivious to the REAL problem (or in denial), will tell her husband she’s leaving (once she finds someone else, like my ex did), and the husband will have no idea it got to that point. He’ll suggest counseling, and she might go (half-heartedly), quit after a few sessions, and that will be the end of it.
That’s how it ended for me.
There is always an underlying reason for a poor libido. I would have the doctor give her husband a complete physical since there are many things that can cause this. It may be as simple as extremely low testosterone levels. Testosterone is THE hormone that stimulates a persons sex drive.
If there is no underlying medical cause then the next step is a counsellor for him and then couples counselling.
If he balks at any of this then maybe he’s not interested in even being married and then there is cause for divorce.
Yes sex is an integral part of marriage. But sex has many faces and there are a million and one ways to be sexual with each other including masturbation.
.-= Maureen´s last blog .. =-.
I hope this is not cruel to say, but my first thought is her husband might be gay. Maybe he doesn’t even know it. I’ve never met or heard of a straight man in my entire life who would turn down ready-and-willing hetero sex for three years–unless he was gay.
I feel incredible sorry for this woman. I would ask him to go to marital therapy and have a third party help him see how this is hurting her. Hopefully with the help of a marriage therapist he might be comfortable to share a rational explanation as to “why” he does not want sex. Most of us would never enter into marriage if the spouse shared that they would never have sex with us again. This husband, basically, has mislead her or something huge has come up. She needs an explanation before she can figure out how to go forward.
1. He should get checked out by a doctor and make sure they check his testosterone as well as full lab work done.
2. See a marriage counselor.
I’m not always in the mood for sex but I am willing to be generous with my spouse if he is in the mood. Marriage is no place for selfishness.
By the way, I think Rob (commented above) is projecting his own situation. I’ve run into nagging wives AND I’ve also seen husbands who want to be taken care of like their mommy took care of them. Neither are a pretty site but no sex for 3 years is a much bigger issue that I think is related to low testosterone, childhood sexual abuse or sexual orientation.
Good luck to this couple.
Get divorced now.
It’s not the sex itself that’s important. It’s that he knows it’s important to you, and he’s not doing anything about it but make false promises. What changed after the first year?
.-= Kristina´s last blog ..KristinaWeis: RT @randfish We’re hiring program managers and product folks – http://j.mp/9i69qJ and engineers – http://j.mp/9EFWSk Come join the team! =-.
It’s not the sex itself that’s important. It’s that he knows it’s important to you, and he’s not doing anything about it but make false promises. What changed after the first year?
My heart goes out to this woman who is doing all she can to nurture sex with her husband. i agree that he should be tested 4 low testosterone. she definitely needs safe female confidantes who will genuinely receive her in her pain and confusion. i wonder more about the reasons he gives for withholding from her. this is so devastating. makes me sad.
oh, this is painful… after 28 years of marriage I find myself in a similar situation and can’t for the life of me figure it out. I agree there is most likely an underlying issue. If the love is there, I hope you are able to salvage the relationship. I am working on following Heather’s advice.
Katie- So sorry for your painful situation. I’ve heard that with sex issues, try to find counselors who’ve studied David Scharnarch. He wrote many books, including Passionate Marriage, and many marriage/sex experts refer to him. Good luck.
I was in a similar situation, and am currently going through divorce.
I’m still not sure what happened, or why… but during our three years of marriage, we rarely had sex (our sex life was great for the first 3 years of our dating life). In the last year, we went a full 10 months with no contact. And this was NOT my choice. It got so bad that he would no longer hold my hand, put his arm around me or even kiss me. The best I could get was a hug.
We went to a marriage counselor and worked on “baby steps”… a hug a day that he had to ask for and initiate.. and it was supposed to escalate to sex after multiple steps. Well, after 3 months, we finally were supposed to graduate to kissing, and he didn’t want to/couldn’t do it. He could peck, but no tongue, no passion! He gave a myriad of excuses (he didn’t feel close to me, I was too mean, I was too fat, he wasn’t attracted to me, he was afraid.. you name it), but he wouldn’t try to move past it.
It did a number on my self esteem and my self confidence and boarded on abuse I think. I would put on lingerie, give back rubs, try and talk it out. But nothing helped and I only ended up feeling rejected and unloved.
He wouldn’t see that this was something we both needed to become close and I think it would have helped other issues in the marriage. I began to realize that our inability to have sex was really an inability to be compatible outside the bedroom too. He took me for granted and began to care only about his needs and ignored mine. He also loathed himself and became extremely depressed, but wouldn’t allow anyone to help him, even his therapist. The sex issue really was only a smaller part of a bigger problem. And it only helped me realize I deserved more out of a partner.
It turns out that he had an “emotional” relationship with another younger man while we were in counseling. The boy kissed him, and while my husband claims he said no, he continued a friendship with this young man for several months. I wouldn’t be surprised if the problem was that he is gay and is afraid to admit it. Which is a shame. I’ll probably never know, because he refuses to be open and honest with me.
It’s hard when a marriage that was once built on such love, honesty, openness, and a want to be everything for one another falls apart, and there seems to be no true understanding of why. I sympathize with the poster, and I hope she finds some help… but I wouldn’t be surprised if this ends the marriage. If this is one problem, I’m sure there are others that may not seem so large right now, but will manifest themselves soon. Good luck!
I’m with Andrew.
Sure marriage isn’t all about sex and maybe you can have a healthy and happy celibate marriage, but marriage is also about mutual respect for one another’s needs and that is clearly not happening in her case and after three years (out of a four year marriage!) plus counseling, it seems unlikely that the situation will improve.
.-= Jenny´s last blog ..Sourdough French Toast with Maple and Cinnamon =-.
A celibate marriage? Really? Okay. Here’s the thing, a celibate marriage only works if it is mutually celibate. One partner cannot make that decision for the both of them.
This is heartbreaking.
I firmly believe that without sex a marriage is just two people living together. My own situation is somewhat similar. My wife and I have been together almost 15 years and married 10. We had a lot of problems when our kids were very young. It was, largely my fault, as I had major issues with the lack of sleep and the lack of attention that I got from my wife. After a long period – some 5 years – I realised that things had escalated so badly that the marriage was close to collapse. We spoke, I made a huge effort to change and, after a tough transition where I often got discouraged and depressed that things were not improving faster, we are now really good friends and enjoy being in each others company. However, I still see my wife flinch if I touch her, even if it is just a playful squeeze on the leg. Sex on the odd occaision it happens (we are trying to set a biweekly date schedule) is rather passionless. When we do make out I get the feeling that my wife, whom I love dearly, hates every second and feels terribly guilty afterwards. I on the other hand feel like I am a rapist for making love with my wife.
I’m hanging in on the marriage at the moment. As I said I love my wife totally but I have to say I certainly feel your pain. Its the mixture of rejection, the associated anger that goes with it and the feeling of futility at not being able to change things that wears a person down. I really hope there is an answer because like you I don’t want to get divorced (I also adore our kids and fear what damage a divorce will do to them) but I also don’t want to be made to feel so awful just for wanting a physical side to the marriage either.
From the bottom of my heart I hope you can find a solution.
I give this woman props, I would not and could not, and will not for that matter–go three years without sex in my marriage. No way, no how!
The fact that she’s still there and hasn’t cheated yet, bravo to her! A woman has needs you know! This may not be abuse, but sure as hell is NEGLECT! And sometimes, that is worse. I have the (much) higher sex drive in my marriage and I won’t lie, it’s caused a lot of late night arguments–but at the end of the day, this is about being married to a person who PROMISED to live a life WITH YOU–not without you–and that includes sex.
I agree that sex isn’t everything, but it is also means a lot.
I also 100% agree with Maureen, Heather, Heidi & Vida–they all said exactly what I was going to say, but amongst the four of them, put it better than I could have.
My heart breaks for this woman and I sincerely hope & pray things get better–one way or the other! If it was me, though, I’d have had an affair long ago (before 3 years) and be outta there—but that’s just me.
Many Blessings,
-Sarah Liz
While I don’t understand how a celibate marriage can be a happy one when both partners are healthy and able, that isn’t an option here anyway as she wants sex.
There has got to be a lot more to this. They need to get to the bottom of why he doesn’t want to have sex with his wife. Individual counseling for him maybe? The more she complains about it the more pressure he will feel so that isn’t a good idea.
Perhaps he is passive aggressively punishing her for something?
.-= Cyndi´s last blog ..Fighting For Peace =-.
Dear “Hopelessly Horny,”
First of all your are not “hopelessly horny,” what you are is a normal human being in a difficult situation. Dissatisfaction in sex is one of the primary reasons that marriages fall apart (and conversely, great sex is one of the main reasons why awful marriages stay together).
Several things come to mind upon reading your question, one is that perhaps your husband is depressed. Perhaps the best place to start, is with him going into therapy with an experienced mental health professional.
The second thing that comes to mind is that it is really all about goals. What is his goal for the marriage and what is your goal for the marriage. Eventually you will need to address those goals in a matter of fact and non-confrontational way.
For starters, he should be speaking to a therapist and if he is unwilling to, then you should consider speaking to one. I would be more that happy to help in this regard, feel free to contact me through my website, http://www.effectivefamilycommunication.com. In the meantime do your best to be patient and kind to each other.
Best of luck,
Ben Klempner, MSW
.-= Ben Klempner, MSW´s last blog ..L for Laughter (A-Z Happiness Guide) =-.
I don’t think we have enough info from Hopelessly Horny. What are the “excuses”? My hubby’s sex drive has greatly diminished over the last three years. Tho we haven’t gone three years without sex. Some of his excuses are a form of blaming me. I don’t accept those, as in, sorry I’ve had some health issues, but you can’t make that a permanent excuse.
If the counseling isn’t working, then I’d say “see a medical doctor” and make sure there’s not a medical reason.
Also, he needs to be completely open and honest about what’s going on. He may not be able to do that with you, the wife. It was very difficult for my hubby and I to talk about his situation. But we did it by me starting out with a very non-accusatory statement. I made it safe for both of us to discuss it without any blame or fault finding. And NO getting mad or upset about what was said.
I read once that there’s no right and wrong for how often to have sex as long as both parties are happy with how often it does happen.
Obviously she isn’t happy so it’s a problem.
Someone has probably said it already but is it possible he’s gay?
As for celibate marriages, I never thought I was a particularly sexual person (I enjoyed it but I didn’t think I needed it on a regular basis) until I was pregnant with our youngest and got a particularly strong bout of the horny hormones which seem to have stuck around, mainly because I noticed that we get along a lot (and I mean a LOT!) better when we are having sex at least every few days. So I have been more willing even when I’m not really in the mood and would have in the past shut him down.
There could be other factors involved – like are we not in the mood when we’re tired and because of being tired also crankier? I don’t know, all I know is (for us anyway) more sex = happy marriage
You all are offering great insight and suggestions! Thank you. Also, I can’t believe the gay issue hadn’t occurred to me. Wow. That has to be it, right?
The insights offered here are absolutely wonderful. I am married 15 years and sex has been the thorn in our marriage for all of them. My husband’s libido is much lower than mine. We love each other dearly but while I consider sex to be very important it just isn’t as important to him.
I felt so worthless as a woman that I packed on the pounds and generally didn’t feel much self-worth. I finally hit 50 years old and said enough. I needed to end my life or go on in a healthy way. I lost 50 pounds, developed friendships that got me out of the house and even traveling a bit and actually looked for another relationship (This never happened thank God). When my husband saw that I was moving on with my life without him it really gave him pause.
One night, after we went to bed I told him flat out, here is where I am going with my life and that I wanted him to go with me. I wanted him to add that dimension to the rest of my life that only he could but I was ready move on regardless. I gave him one more try at marriage counseling if he wanted but intimacy was non-negotiable.
We are finally in a good place , thanks to some wonderful counseling and the constant “I love you”s we have given each other. He now understands my needs and tries to meet them and I don’t take it so personally if he misses a night or a cue.
Unless both partners agree to celibacy it is just cruel to withhold and marriage is not supposed to have even a hint of cruelty in it. Hoeplessly Horny needs to get out. Stop the sniping and fighting and cruelties we can inflict on each other, put it all on the table, and be ready to move on. Life needs to be lived.
What a tough question. My experience with this issue has lasted close to 20 years, with sex being highly unusual. Please do not tell her to get toys to share with her hubby in the bedroom. These can create more distance in an already distant relationship which is hard to deal with when all we truly crave is intimacy. If she simply takes care of herself, she will still be left with the same problem.
While it is conceivable that her husband has a low sex drive, having no sex drive is not normal. I believed my husband didn’t have one, because he gave that to me as an excuse. What I recently found out is that he’s been masturbating at least once a week for the duration of our marriage. (It was excruciating to learn this.) His reason for doing this instead of having sex? Sex was too much work. This seems to be a common concept, as I’ve heard it more often recently.
Added to that info, was the fact that he enjoyed looking at porn online. (This I discovered within the last few years but came to understand it has always been a contributing factor.) It warped his perception, was something I could never live up to, and became a wedge in our entire life together. Mind you, this was not a constant occurrence, but consistent enough behavior that it affected him.
Notice, that despite his very many reasons for not wanting to have sex, he was being sexual but hiding it. My idea is that he was being selfish out of fear of intimacy.
Now, what did I do? I went crazy initially, and sometimes still have my moments. I begged, pleaded, cried, grew silent, fought, demanded. Pretty much I tried everything. I took it personally. I got thin, I got fat. I dressed differently, seductively, plainly. I became willing to try anything, except other people, if it meant we’d have sex. (This did not help. I felt cheap, alone, used.)
Our relationship became dormant. We did not speak about anything but work and kids (We have 4 together.) I was an angry person. And I still do not trust him. I know, I’m working on it.
Then, something happened. I realized that HE had a problem that was hurting him and I was contributing to it. There was a vicious circle dance going on in our life. (Have you heard of the pattern of how we dance through life with our spouses?) I was playing a part in the whole thing. After 20 years of living together this way, I am sure you can imagine how intricately we pushed and pulled each other through the days.
When we first met, we BOTH felt safe with each other. My gosh, it had never truly occurred to me that he needed to feel accepted or safe. He needed a friend. I imperfectly started attempting to accept him the way I do my close friend and my children, not with the goal of fixing the sex issue but because it wasn’t right to be otherwise. I was looking around at these relationships, realizing that I felt and treated them entirely different than I do the one with my husband. They could make mistakes, even repeated ones, and I did not mark it on a mental calendar for later reference. With others I was encouraging and compassionate—-positive attitude kind of thing–without even trying to be. But my husband had a whole set of different rules applied to him.
I also decided that we were both worth more. We deserved a loving relationship, with sex and all the other trimmings. That decided, I went to my husband and told him (this took a few months of consistent behavior) that I knew something was deeply wrong here. I needed him to tell me what he thought it was and until then, we would not be able to move forward. That isn’t exactly what was said, but it’s the general idea. The big deal here is that I did not revert to any of my old coping techniques. I did not seemingly forgive and forget and move on. I did not go back to acting like everything was okay. I chose to stay in the truth that we deserved more and I acted on it. Does it make sense when I say that I changed my mind and stuck with it? But it was work. I continuously fought with my own mind, especially with how I perceive everything he does. And often wondered how he ever bore being under such a massive microscope.
Over the last six months, things have gotten better. It has not been easy. It is uncharted territory. It can be terrifying. But our individual lives are getting better and so is our marriage.
Of course, there is so much more to this story. But I wanted to share with you the bones of it, in case it might help your reader. She is at the beginning of a journey, that if she stays, could get worse before either of them grow to a point where it can get better. I feel for her. And found it curious that some of her words are exactly the same as words I have often used.
Dear whoever,
I wish it were as simple as “we CAN live without sex”, but it isn’t. If there is no physical cause (and most of us would go the extra mile it there were), then the refuser is being selfish/controlling, for some unknown reason -previously abused, mentally ill, whatever. I know, as I have been in this very situation for 5 + years. The sex was there when I was being wooed, but died even before we married. I was given reasons -worry of pre-existing debts, insecurity because it was my house (he felt like a lodger), he didn’t feel well, and so on. After 2 courses of psychosexual therapy, we are just embarking on couples counselling, as a last ditch attempt at fixing this. I am at my wits’ end. I was devastated when, just 2 weeks ago, he said he had never lusted after me (let’s face it girls, if he never wants to get into your undies, is he really going to genuinely try?) and he had NEVER looked at me and thought “I can’t wait to get her between the sheets”. I helped him clear the debts, deal with his uncontrolled drinking, his temper (he has a nasty side), re-mortgaged MY house, and lost my self-esteem.
It was bad enough that, after 2+ years of marriage, he finally admitted that he had never desired sex more than 4 times a YEAR, even in his youth, despite telling me that he used to do it about once a week in previous relationships. I have been turned into a “mother/administrator, and a breathing teddy-bear”, who comforts him as he goes to sleep, in our cold bed, and deals with the domestic duties during the day. I am an attractive, shapely, clean, intelligent 54 yr-old, who has reached breaking-point, and (if the counselling doesn’t work) HE is out the door.
@ Heather:
sorry to disagree,
but I think Rob had it right the first time. I don’t think that women realize
that men are actually quite effected by these issues.
Good call alisa, many mixed ideas here, as you suspected- though I think alot of this seems to be men on one side and women on another.
Without reading all the other posts the first thing that came to mind for me is, Is he closeted? The shame society puts on being gay – did they sex-it up before they were married?
Many good comments here. First & foremost an affair is NEVER the answer. It can destroy families & hurt everybody involved. That is never good. I agree with most that there must be a physical or psycological reason for this. 1st thing to always check is a physical condition, most of which are treatable. He may feel afraid or embarrased to discuss what is at the heart matter. Many times a man will talk about it with an uninvolved 3rd party who can be objective. Don’t be offended if this is the case. It is just the way men are. To admit it to you may make him feel like a failier as a man & husband. It is a normal response. See if he was ever the victim of sexual abuse. It does happen to men. If there are no abuse problems & the physical reasons have been ruled out then counseling could be helpful. Perhaps he would open up one on one with a therapist which would open the door to going as a couple. He may feel better having it come from a therapist than from him. I imagine it would be hard to admit such things to some one we we love so dearly for fear of being thought of as less than a man & husband. Best of luck. I know this can be heartbreaking but nothing is unfixable.
@aguyreader
No offense at all. And I agree that can happen. But to go without sex for 3 years because of that? Bigger issues.
@ Drummer
Totally agree that affair is not the answer. Get a divorce if it comes to that before moving on.
Based on personal experience I believe that there are a number of issues going on here. Although I can’t related to a 3 year drought, my wife and I have been struggling with the issue of a sparse sex life for years (sparse being sometimes only once or twice a month). I finally got checked medically about two years ago and found out that I had extremely low testosterone. So my first advice would be to start there. Although the injections started to make me feel better and more interested in sex, I then discovered that there were emotional and environmental components as well. I could think about sex all day long and be looking forwarded to it until the minute I got home and all I heard was my wife screaming at our 3 kids and bitching at me that I was 15 minutes late, or forgot some trivial thing, etc. Now in retrospect I know that she was just venting and wrongly taking it out on me, but that was the end of me wanting to have sex with her that night. Other days when that wasn’t the issue when I came home, I would walk into her telling me how tired she was and all she wanted to do that night was go to bed early. Guilt at that point would prevent me from forcing myself upon her. When you have young children this can happen on an almost daily basis.
I found that stress was another major component. My career has been running start-up companies. I didn’t realize until after I sold the last one how much it consumed me. That was my fault – but part of my resentment towards her was that I was making a lot of money and she had all the luxuries in the world – would it be so hard for her to forget that I had been neglectful in the past and initiate some things on her own? Or perhaps, learn to deal with everyday stress better so that we could have an active sex life?
My resentment for her has steadily grown and increasingly so in the past year. When I see her as unappreciative and unwilling to change it doesn’t lead to wanting to be with her, and I imagine subconsiously to wanting to punish her. Which of course I know is self-defeating. I don’t cheat on her because I feel that it is wrong – which again increases the resentment of her – now I feel trapped between a rock and a hard place.
The irony is that earlier in the relationship I was the majoity of the problem, and becuase of that I have turned her into the majority of the problem. With my medical issue addressed I am now stuck with her emotional issues. As the two other men answering here have pointed out – all the snide comments and personal attacks do have an effect. I would submit that if the constant barrage of negativity was leveled at you, you would most certainly be affected as well.
I don’t know if any of these issues are in your relationship, I just know that for me, the growing resentment, feelings of a lack of respect, and an absolute failure to communicate have proved equally as challenging as the low testosterone.
I also don’t know if you have children, which as usual, is the common theme in these threads as to why people end up staying together. I know for me that I could never bear the thought of not being with my kids every day.
If you have children, find out if he is gay, if he’s not, test his testosterone levels (and yes it is shameful for some men to admit that they have a lack of testosterone), and ask yourself if there is any reason that he may resent you, or feel that you are not a true “partner”, or is stress an issue? If you get past the first two I recommend a counselor to help facilitate the emotional issues and open dialogue.
If you don’t have children I’d go through the same process but set a firm short term deadline for the relationship to be acceptable and enjoyable to you, and leave the minute that the deadline passes if he does not comply. You deserve to be happy, and if you don’t have to worry about children, you should take the fastest path to getting there. Good luck.
I find it ironic you mentioned the need for emotional connection during sexual intimacy as the primary issue for this woman, and then as your first recommendation you suggest a number of sex toys. That’s like fitting your arm with a cast when it’s your leg that’s broken. I would think she was doing that already on some level if it was purely a physical need that was not being met.
I have dealt with this issue in my own marriage. There has to be more communication between the spouses. Speaking from my experiences, I couldn’t force the issue, but I had to address it. Being angry about it doesn’t help even though it’s immensely frustrating (nearly 9 years of struggles for me in my marriage). Learn to meet in the middle somewhere and show concern for the husbands needs. He’s much more likely to meet yours when he feels like his feelings are validated too.
3 years is bad though. Maybe he has some negative conditioning or a bad experience in his past he needs to address.
Anotherguyreader is correct. I fell into the pattern that he describes to an extent. My husband let me down with his low libido, I took it personally, and I lashed out. He would role over on his side, show me his back and I would flip.
He in effect created a problem and I dealt with it poorly. I undermined him as a husband and man with my cutting comments. I actually had to have it pointed out to me by a very dear girlfriend who witnessed my cutting. It made me look inward and it was part of my revelation that this was not healthy.
I’m not saying turn the other cheek or just put your needs on hold and accept less than will make you happy but no one responds to cruelty and if it is ever going to improve someone has to start it.
My husband and I are doing much better now. I am not verbally abusive and he is not retreating, we are dealing with the issues that need to be dealt with in a loving way. I feel he really wants me to be happy and fulfilled so he is being much more intimate with me and I am learning not to vent my anger in his direction.
Send out positive energy and that is usually what will come back to you.
@Heather,
I was absolutely projecting my own situation. It’s the only one with direct experience I have.
My point, which I think I failed to make adequately, was that it may not be anything she’s doing now that caused the problem, but something a long time ago that created a pattern that they’re still living through today.
Women need love. Men need respect. That’s as old as the Bible. (Ephesians 5:33) My only guess is that her husband doesn’t feel like she respects him, and that probably started way back. That’s how it happened for me. At first, it was just the occasional snide comment or insulting remark (not quite in jest), then escalated to her openly disrespecting me around friends and family. That’s what created the distance between us. I still loved her … very much so … but I no longer desired her. I was only after the divorce that I finally figured out what had happened.
I will say this … the sex toys advice is -terrible-. That’s only going to increase the distance between them. Toys should be used as part of a healthy relationship, not in place of.
Look at it from his point of view – she has said it’s a problem for three years, but she is still putting up with it.
I understand her reasons for what she has and is doing, but she has unintentionally given him a very good reason to think it’s not as big a deal to her as she tells him it is.
If she can’t or won’t live this way, then sooner or later the marriage is going to end. If that is going to happen, then it would seem she has nothing to lose – and acting like she has nothing to lose might get his attention. My suggestion is an ultimatum – he get’s whatever help he needs in a set amount of time, or she separates. He than has another set amount of time to get it right, or she divorces him. Odds are he will ignore this, because he has good reason to think it’s just a bluff – this means the separation might get his attention.
.-= Paul Byerly´s last blog ..Her fear of you growing or changing =-.
Paul is correct, we are creatures bound to take the easy path and by her living with this for 3 years she is enabling him to an extent. She needs to put an end to that by putting her cards on the table and expecting him to step up to the plate.
Paul, Joanne, Ultimatums are such a bad power play in marriages, or any relationship. It cuts off the growing process before it even starts by undermining the commitment. It is better for her to take a look at herself, why she’s believing his excuses, how she feels, what she’s doing to contribute to the problem, because it does take two. Allowing him to continue his behavior without consequences is unnatural. (Everything we do in life has consequences.) However, that is most likely, not the only thing she’s doing to contribute to this problem. What kind of self esteem does she have? How much pain is she hiding? How much fear does she hold? Why not go to counseling herself in order to learn how to handle this situation better? It helped me. Maybe then she can figure out what the issues really are.
It’s too easy to just look at our spouses.
Me and my man went through a phase of about 1.5 years of really CRAP sex! We did it 2-4 times a month and I felt stifled and stuck sexually.
What this reader needs to understand is that sex is the barometer of the relationship. In our case, our sex life was suffering due to stress from all the other commitments in our lives -but most importantly, our relationship was suffering. We didn’t start to have a rockin’ sex life until our relationship healed.
I’ll be controversial here and say that if she has put on lots of weight in the past 3 years, it may not be an excuse that he is not attracted to her. I believe that both parties have an obligation to keep their bodies in pretty good shape for each other, so that could be one piece of the puzzle that we are missing.
I honestly believe that only about 10% of men actually are capable of having healthy, loving marriages, and that about 30% of women are capable. To put it simply, in my opinion, this guy is a dud. He doesn’t seem to care about their marriage and work on improving it with her. He’s not even willing to talk to her! Now there is a good chance that if she divorces, depending on her age/attractiveness, she may never meet anyone else. She has to compare that risk with the guarantee that all of her husbands actions leads her to believe that she is in a sexless marriage.
I was lucky enough to get one of the 10%, which is why I hung on to him throughout all our rough times. I was always convinced that we would get through it because he was consistently working hard at our relationship and appreciative of my hard work on our relationship.
@Work In Progress – I tend to agree with you, but please note the qualifiers I put before the ultimatum. In my mind an ultimatum is better than just leaving.
.-= Paul Byerly´s last blog ..Her fear of you growing or changing =-.
I do think a bad sex life is cause for divorce, honestly. I just can’t imagine not having sex for three years. The whole POINT of being married is to get lucky often. Well, okay, not the whole point, but it really is important (and it helps you be healthier and happier and less stressed out…)
.-= Jennifer Margulis´s last blog ..Gold Beach is Rich with a Jet Boat Load of Natural Treasures =-.
I agree with the gay thing.
First of all “the gay thing?”, like a man is gay if he’s not into you?
Personally I think this says a little more about the narcissism of the woman, than the sexuality of the man.
I agree that there could be many reasons. I just think that the most likely culprit is bruised ego and anger issues.
Just want to remind everyone that we are all people here, not just faceless comments on the Internet. Please play nice. It’s really okay to have different opinions. That’s how we all learn to be tolerant about our differences. But there’s no need to tear down anyone for a difference of opinion. That’s not what this site is about. Thanks so much for your cooperation.
.-= Alisa Bowman´s last blog ..What are your turn offs and turn ons? =-.
I am coming to this post late and do not have time to read the responses this morning since I’m leaving for the weekend. I do want to say, however, this was one of the reasons I left my first marriage, but I cannot go into that here in a few sentences. My second husband, before we met, was in a menage a trois for a while. The woman’s husband was not interested in sex at all. This does happen. I don’t remember all the details, but somehow my husband was recruited as a sex partner for the wife. The problem was she fell in love with him, so he had to end his “participation.” This all took place in Sweden, many years ago.
I also had a friend in France whose husband stopped having sex with her once they were married. Whore/Madonna complex? I think that’s the name for it. She finally got a divorce, but it took her years to realize she wanted sex in her life and did not feel willing to live without a physical loving relationship all her life.
I know I could not live in a marriage without sex. I truly feel for the person who emailed you, because making such a monumental decision is not easy, especially for a woman who has learned not to hurt others. I think you have to evaluate how important sex is to you personally and have a frank conversation with your spouse. Communication and sex go hand in hand, I think, which answers today’s question about turn-ons, too. Ciao!
.-= Alexandra´s last blog ..The White Balloon =-.
Here’s a thought or two.
First off I will tell you that of course there is something deeper going on!
The husband in this marriage has actually pinpointed various things that have happened and to some degree continue to happen, but when he tries to actually have a dialogue about it, the wife goes into defense mode and either has an emotional fit, bursting into tears, unable to have any type of conversation, or viciously defending things that have happened and bringing the conversation back around to point towards him.
This is why there is a counselor involved, to help them navigate these emotionally touchy areas, although he feels that one of her main goals for going is to fix “him”.
She “might” say that all she needs in her marriage is to feel loved and the only way to accomplish this is through sex.
Then in almost the same breath explains how she “hates” the house they live in “hates” the state they live in, “hates” her mother, “hates” not having any friends, and blames him for this, even though she does have friends, just not as close as she’d like, and the list goes on, but I have no intentions of actually posting many details about their personal lives, that’s what the counselor is for.
I think it’s odd though that some of the women seem to lean more towards a gay theory than many other things.
I mean men are just simple minded beer swilling NASCAR/Pro Wrestling fans who only think with their members and if they don’t have sex with you on command, they must be gay, right?
Wow, I don’t even want to touch that, I’m pretty sure I would piss off every woman in the world, and that’s not my goal here today.
This husband actually desires his wife, and wants to have sex, BUT he also knows that this requires an emotional vulnerability that he cannot attain, at this point.
Let me also point out that there is a lot of intimacy going on in this marriage, albeit guarded.
There a hugs daily, kisses daily, (yes, sometimes with tongue and everything) he touches her daily, pets her hair, kisses her neck, holds her hand in public, tells her he loves her 5 times a day, and looks at her while he does, etc. etc. etc.
But when it comes to “going all the way” he almost has a panic attack, and yes, this causes his thing not to work.
All by itself it does work although not like it did when he was 20.
He actually knows the reasons for this, has shared this information with her, but when she is confronted with these details,
she says she is tired of having the same conversations over and over again, even though this is actually what he needs to feel safe and secure with her.
So the talking about it avenue has been basically killed.
He feels that he must now just give her random reasons to not be in the mood that meet that days circumstances.
He used to read her journal, don’t freak out, it was left on an end table, or the counter.
Anyway, on the one hand, she would leave him loving notes for him to read, that said that she loves him and wants to make this work, then on the other hand he would read in her journal about leaving him.
Not just for lack of sex either, this is just the latest reason.
Counseling is a process, but rather than let the process work she wants/expects immediate improvement/change.
By the time they go back to the counselor again, they are almost starting over from scratch from all the ongoing behavior that seems to be unwilling to change.
Also to the people who are saying that having a marriage without sex equates to just having a roommate is like saying that having a marriage with sex equates to having a friend with benefits.
I think it’s just over the top to think this way, there are so many things that this married couple share that no sane person would share with just a roommate.
Also if she were giving counseling a real chance would she really go online and keep downloading activities for them to do, although she does have the time to do this, as she has quit the last 6 or so jobs.
And why is she able to do this? Him. He carries the weight when she decides she “hates” this job too.
And even though he doesn’t get to, or want to control what she does, he CAN control what he does, he is just unable, at this point, to become ultimately emotionally vulnerable, but he really, REALLY wants to!
He doesn’t understand why, if she is giving counseling a real and true chance to work, why she would go to one marriage site, read about the parts that support what “she” wants, and downloads a 6 page emotional needs questionnaire for them to fill out.
Then when they exchange their answers as she requested, he reads not about emotional needs, but about what she shouldn’t have to do, what he should do, what is bad, and what is wrong, and how he has failed, etc.
It didn’t turn out to say: I am (NAME) and I need (THIS), it turned out to say all the things that he does wrong, reinforced with the things he fails to do right.
He immediately recognized this, pointed it out, and of course they had an argument, where she, at first, ferociously defended what she had written.
Then she will go to another site, and email the admin lady to have (one side) of their marital dirt posted online to have the whole world read, judge, and ridicule.
Nevermind what has been talked about or accomplished at a counseling session that week.
He feels that she has done this to align the world against him in yet another attempt to get what she wants regardless of the cost or circumstance.
He believes that she would like to read a post from someone that may contain that magic bullet to fix everything, right now, only to find answers that he’s gay, divorce him now, and his member probably doesn’t work.
Well, he is actually reading the posts too, knowing that this is about him, his personal life, the most private and emotionally vulnerable part of himself, and she says that she has no privacy. Wow.
I do know how to see a browsers history, not to mention, at one time, they had given each other the passwords the each others emails, they were that close and open.
This has changed, of course.
What a way to fix a marriage huh? This will surely make him feel secure enough to become emotionally vulnerable and intimate.
PS:
Kristi: you are a very smart person.
Rob: you just about nailed it………..both times.
Kathy: good advise, although I am not allowed to be open and honest about it, see emotional fits above.
Work In Progress: I am actually okay with using toys for the time being, a little weird, but I can be weird..
Sylvester: The reasons are not unknown, just forgotten about, and discarded.
Aguyreader: You are correct, Rob did have it right the first time……and your second post was great, thank you.
Drummer Guy: Thank you.
JM: Thank you.
Joanne: It’s almost like you know us.
To everyone else, I will add, good luck to all of you who have your own crappy situations.
Please don’t ever serve on a jury.
@TheOtherPerspective: I know this has been hard for you to see and read and find out about, but I do thank you for coming and sharing this perspective. Otherwise, as you mentioned, we all only have one side of the story. I think this well illustrates something that goes on in nearly all marriages: it’s really difficult to see another person’s perspective, and, until one can, marital arguments go in circles.
I also thank you for being so kind in your response. My entire goal here is to help others see that there ARE other perspectives. I thank you for that.
.-= Alisa Bowman´s last blog ..What are your turn offs and turn ons? =-.
@TheOtherPerspective -
As my counselor said to me when I was “hating” my husband and thinking we needed marriage counselor for all he did “wrong” – she doesn’t do marriage counseling until each partner has had their own counseling.
Guess what, we didn’t need counseling. I NEEDED counseling. Sure my husband has some faults, but nothing to divorce over. Sure, we’re not having sex all that often – once a month to once every three months. So what! Our marriage isn’t about sex. It’s about being with each other thru the rough times – I had two surgeries in February. He drove me to Tampa, FL, for one of them (from TX). He took me to my other one locally and took care of me while I was screaming in pain since the pain meds weren’t helping. Then went to the pharmacy to get me another pain med. And we’re here for each other for the good times.
May I suggest you get individual counseling, play nice in the interim and then go back to couple counseling (if you even need couple counseling). I had to fix my head and heart before I could truly see my husband for who he is – a wonderful man, that makes all the money and lets me be responsible for it all. I even have housekeepers since that’s what I want.
I’m glad you posted here. I love reading the other side of the coin. Because there is always two sides to the story.
I wish you well in repairing your marriage. It’s a tough road, but oh so worth it.
Hello TheOtherPerspective-
We were given one perspective. Perhaps the better thing for the author to do was to give us both sides? There’s only so much one can do with what short bio of info we were given.
At a jury you get both sides. Unlike the original post that got everything started.
Hope you both are able to work it out. Sounds like you both have issues.
Dear TheOtherPerspective: Your courage has me in awe and even though the hurt and pain is palpable if the love is still there, with counseling, there is always hope. I never try to give advise because , who the hell am I, but my husband and I found a turning point when we looked into a specific kind of marriage counseling called Imago therapy. A simple explanation is it works on the principle that the way we approach a relationship is taught to us by the experiences of our youth. My husband was raised in a home with unloving, violent people and while he grew into a wonderful man who abhors violence he had no idea how to be intimate and open. In this therapy we work on healing each other with understanding, validation and love.
this was our third counseling attempt and it is a charm. I now look at my husband of 15 years and can love the wounded child , appreciate the man and he can look at me and see the lonely little girl and the loving woman I try to be.
Unfortunately while it takes two to make a marriage work sometimes one has to step forward to get it going.
I think from what you have written and what your wife told us that she and maybe you have brought some baggage and expectations that need to be broken down and faced.
Good luck
@ theotherpetrspective. Excelent. Absolutely wonderful. You are right in that people probably jump to conclusions without hearing the other side. I try to avoid doing that but am probably guilty as well. In my current marriage things are great but I can always try to be a better man & husband. In my first marriage there were issues I wish we had addressed before it got to far. I even wish I had found sites like this. Not to try & change her but see what I can do to be better. I can control that much more than I can control what another does.
I applaud the effort put in to try & save a marriage in conflict. All marriages no matter how good go through rough times but nothing (short of abuse, never ending affairs etc, not here but you know what I mean) is unrepairable. You are a good man for doing everything you can to get a valuable relationship back on track. In my personal life my parents went through some really rough times when I was really young. The problems were numerous & too many outside observers, seemed unfixable. All of them were resolved with counseling. It took both sides willing to face their own issues before working on the marriage. Thank God they took the time to do it. It was a long process that had great results.
One of which was a happy upbringing for their children. They both passed away knowing that they had a great marriage, a great life & were loved in life & missed in death. They were so happy they took the time & effort to repair what some thought was unrepairable Good thing they didn’t listen to the opinion of others. Best of luck
Sincerely,
Just Another Guy (drummer lol) on a Long Journey Called Life
Opps forgot the notify me of follow up comments button again lol. I’m such a goofball
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