A Reader Participation Post
On what was possibly the rainiest morning ever, I went on set at WFMZ Channel 69 to talk about housework, and how to stop arguing about who should be doing what. (You can watch the segment here.) Let me tell you: trying to get your hair to look good on a Pouring Down Rain Day? Not easy.
But I digress.
After the segment aired, a disgruntled husband emailed me. He told me that my advice was all well and good, but what was he supposed to do about his clean freak of a wife who constantly supervised his housework and told him he was doing it wrong?
“What do you do when one person thinks he/she knows better than the other?” he asked. “I think both partners should come together and discuss why one gets so irritated by a little dirt. I clean the house everyday and it’s still not clean enough for her.”
Ah, backseat cleaning. Some people backseat drive. Others backseat cook. His wife? She backseat cleans. What should he do? How can this couple find marital peace? Can they have a clean house and a happy marriage, too?
I’m the first to admit that I do not have all the answers. I solved my husband’s backseat driving by refusing to drive whenever he’s in the car. I solved his backseat cooking by threatening to go on a cooking strike.
I’m not sure if that’s the solution for backseat cleaning. It might be. But it might not be, either.
I will say this. In my experience, controlling behavior generally stems from one of two issues (or both at the same time).
- The sensation that one is out of control. This out-of-control sensation may have nothing to do with the thing the person is trying to control. For instance, Mrs. Back Seat Cleaner might feel out of control at work, so she feels better if everything at home is in its perfect and rightful place.
- Inadequacy. Mrs. Backseat Cleaner might not feel loved by Mr. Doesn’t Clean the House the Way I Want Him To, and instead of increasing her sense of love in a healthy way (for instance, by asking, “Do you love me?”) she does it by attempting to control him. If he does whatever she tells him to do, then, she reasons, he must love her.
With that in mind, I think this couple might be able to solve the problem in a number of ways.
- The husband might be able to find other ways to prove his love to her. Perhaps some romance is in order.
- She might go into therapy so she can work on her issues of inadequacy and fear. Or they might try marital counseling, and see if they can solve these issues together.
- If she really has a huge need to have the house a certain way, perhaps this couple could split up the tasks so that she’s the one who cleans and he’s the one who does something else that is equally as time-consuming, such as cooking.
What do you think this couple should do? What do you think causes Back Seat Cleaning? Are you a Back Seat Cleaner? If so, why do you do it and how could your spouse better understand that need? Leave a comment.
Note: My husband would like you all to know that I am the slob and he is the clean person, even though I claimed that the opposite was true during my TV segment. I suppose he and I have a difference of opinion regarding this topic. That said, he’s been an exceptionally good boy lately, so I’m willing to publicly go on record with this: he might possibly be neater than I am when it comes to organizing electric wires and cords. He’s very good at that, and if it were not for him, we would have wires and cords running every which way throughout the house. The only thing I can do with a bunch of wires is this: tangle them up into a big fat knot. He’s also very good at vacuuming. In fact, I never do it. I hate the noise the vacuum makes and the dang thing smells like damp dirty dog, probably because it has a pound of dog hair shoved up inside it somewhere. Oh, and my husband is the kind of guy who will take a vaccum apart just so he can locate the source of the damp dirty dog smell and remove it. I would never take a vacuum apart. I would never take anything apart. In my mind, if something needs to be taken apart, then it’s probably time to replace it. My husband is also in charge of taking down spider webs. If I did such a thing it would be bad for my Karma. He also does the laundry, but he does not put the clothes away. He also takes out the trash, but he does not ever put a fresh bag in the can. I’m not sure why he does not put away clothes or put fresh bags in trash cans, but I do know this: I love him anyway and I’m not about to complain about it. I’m just happy that he does any of it.
Copyright 2010 Project Happily Ever After
No related posts.
Related posts brought to you by Yet Another Related Posts Plugin.
Sarah Liz (6)
Kerry (3)
Alexandra (2)
Ayelet (2)
Kathy (2)
Mandy (2)
TAY (2)
50 Proposals (1)
Amanda (1)
amy (1)
{ 21 comments… read them below or add one }
Interesting, and realistic post. Backseat cleaning… what causes it? Perfectionism. Insecurities. Your point of feeling out of control elsewhere. All of the above. None of the above.
This couple… I’m curious… is there a particular aspect of the cleaning that his wife picks on in particular or is it everything overall? Is it how he sorts laundry? How he dusts? How he vaccuums? How he cleans windows (or never cleans windows)? If it’s something in particular, maybe that could be her “job” in the housekeeping department. If it’s cleaning in general, maybe get to the root of why. Maybe she had a controling mother/father who liked everything “just so” and she feels this is something that “should” be part of a marriage.
Personally… I’m not necessarily a back seat cleaner, but I’ll admit… sometimes I’m not sure my husband does it “right.” Laundry sorting is one of my big things. I take each and every piece of clothing out of the hamper, put it in piles, and go from there. He dumps the whole hamper out or just pulls out enough for one load. So when I go to sort it my way, I’m left with 2 black items in a pile of whites or delicates. Drives me nuts! But… I’ve learned that if I come home and he’s started laundry, I should be grateful that he’s doing laundry. I know many couples that this doesn’t happen. We have 2 bathrooms… which is nice because he gets one and I get one. I clean mine about once a week and wipe things down when needed throughout the week. His drives me nuts, and we’ll just leave it at that.
So am I a back seat cleaner? No, not really. But I do a lot of the cleaning (I have 2 days a week off, so I have the time and don’t mind it)… and I really only clean when I’m home alone because, well, cleaning makes me angry. I don’t like to do it.
For the things I feel in control of in my marriage… if my husband tries to do some of them and it’s not “my way,” I feel irritated. I have been working on trying to deal with this because, frankly, he’s helping. And if I bitch and complain too much, I’ll be bitching and complaining that I get no help.
My husband is the backseat cleaner. We share in household cleaning (which is so awesome) and I am what I think is an extremely neat person, but he comes from a house with a mom that is constantly cleaning, plus his two previous wives – one of which was Swiss-German who ironed socks and underwear – and that is just never going to be me. He sometimes let’s out these big sighs and cleans something after I have cleaned. I am ok with that. When I started to get irritated I say, we are neat clean people, but I will not be a fanatic, life is too short!
.-= Andi´s last blog ..(Not quite) Wordless Wednesday #55 =-.
I think you’ve probably hit the nail on the head with the control/love theories. Another possibility is her feeling the need to feel superior to him, also due to her own insecurities. I highly recommend the cleaning strike. If one player stops playing the game is over. Individual counseling for her sounds like an excellent idea.
.-= Cyndi´s last blog ..Amusement From My Inbox =-.
I just have to say, I read this blog post out loud to my boyfriend (we have been together 3.5 years and live together) and he were both cracking up at the last part because we sound EXACTLY like you and your husband when it comes to our cleaning styles. I always find garbage cans with no liners in them! So funny.
.-= Herding Cats´s last blog ..My Mom Comes to Town… =-.
I think the reader himself stated what needs to be tried first – that both parties should come together and discuss the WHY’s of the situation/issue (maybe they should go back and read your recent post on the importance of the WHY question!)
My husband has a relationship with our dustbuster that is legendary. My neighborhood girlfriends, even our children’s friends know of his obsession with dustbusting and vacuuming. He grew up with a mother who is constantly cleaning, wiping, picking up, etc. (to which my sisters-in-law and I have analyzed quite extensively) I am a stay-at-home mom (Alisa, could you one day write something on what an oxymoron that is?) and I used to resent feeling like I could clean the house all day long, and my husband would come home and the only thing he would notice would be the one piece of microscopic lint on the kitchen floor. I finally realized that I did not need to be cleaning to try to earn his attention or praise. Learning the WHY behind his issues relieved me of feeling like I was responsible for curing his anxieties. I now get my cleaning done because I want to feel satisfied with my own work. I love hubby and I know that there are certain things that make him feel a sigh of relief when he comes home at the end of the day. I know that cleared off kitchen counters and a bed that is made make him feel good. He knows that we have 3 children and reality dictates that there will always be a certain degree of child induced mess around the house. We each know these things now because we finally opened up and talked about why he expects this and why I expect that. Compromise and understanding can hopefully be reached for the Mr. Trying to clean and Mrs. Clean it my way.
I like Natalie’s suggestion that if there is something in particular the wife is picky about, then she should be the one to do it.
I think backseat parenting can be an even bigger problem.
Going on “strike” for cleaning, cooking, or driving can be an acceptable solution to backseat efforts in those areas. But you can’t (or shouldn’t) go on “strike” for being an involved or leave that up to the other. That’s a recipe for things getting way out of balance.
On the other hand, parenting mistakes can be more consequential than cleaning not being done the right way, so it does require your spouse to nudge you when you’re going off course.
–
I also wonder if there’s a “pay-off” to the “Why am I the one who has to do everything!” notion, and if my spouse is helping out with a chore, then I can’t make that complaint. Better to criticize her efforts in that area so she’ll never want to do it, and then I can go back to complaining about how I’m the one who has to do everything!
Here’s a solution – pay someone to clean the house then you won’t argue about it.
I think the wife should stop nagging, but I also think she should be able to just point out when a cleaning job was not adequate. My husband will wash the dishes that don’t fit in the dishwasher but then he will walk away without wiping the counter or rinsing out the sink. Ick! So I feel well within my rights to just point this out to him since it seems pretty clear it is NOT a completed job. However, I don’t nag!
I’m completely with you on Vacuuming. In fact, I consider the fact that my current apartment has wood floors one of its best features for exactly that reason.
My husband claims that he doesn’t like to load the dishwasher because he does it wrong and I will end up rearranging everything. It is obvious (to me) that this is his excuse for being lazy. So I told him I didn’t care how he arranged the dishes, as long as he put them in the dishwasher. It actually worked! He loads the dishwasher… sometimes.
Ever thought Mrs Backseat Cleaner has OCD ? (Obsessive/Compulsive Disorder) I have a friend married to someone who has it – no matter how much she cleans, it’s never good enough and he just follows around “cleaning up after her” when she cleans because she didn’t do it just right. If anything is even 1/16 of an inch out of place, he can spot it from across the room after just coming into the house – and immediately has to fix it and then completely clean the house. My friend has basically given up cleaning – and I honestly don’t know if she cooks either because it frustrates him to no end when she’s “dirtying his kitchen”, so it’s possible she no longer does that either.
What do I suggest … Mr & Mrs NEED to have a good long talk with each other, discussing in detail what each other feels they like to do the best or what each one hates to do the most in regards to housework (and even yard work). Then find a compromise and move forward from there. I also feel that IF Mrs does have OCD, she might want to let that sink in and give Mr a little more breathing space when it comes to his cleaning abilities. JMO
My husband was raised by a neat freak. I am telling you, you have never seen cleanliness on this level. Anyway, I have found the BEST solution to back seat cleaning! Recently my husband and I switched rolls. Now I work outside the home and he stays home with our three boys. This was not a decision made by us. Circumstances dictated this sudden change, but when life throws you a curve ball you roll with it, right? It has taken about 4 months and now the honeymoon period is over. He has recently figured out that I am a better cook than he thought (after a few kitchen disasters of his own), and that keeping up with a house, three boys, cooking, fieldtrips, school supplies, science projects, getting ready for company, etc, etc, etc is much harder than he thought! Now the cleanliness standards have loosened up a little bit and some things go un-done. I have learned some things as well. 1: How to bite my tongue when I get home from work and it looks like nothing has been done all day. 2: How tired he felt at the end of a long day at work, and how it feels to walk in the door and be asked to set the table or some other small task. 3: That his way is just as good as mine! So next time you feel like being a back seat ANYTHING, put yourself in that person’s shoes. That’s what my husband did and I’m learning from it too!
I used to clean on a rigid schedule. I can relax in a clean house. I’d complain of a mess, and if I really looked around, I would see my stuff out and not put away. He hangs up his clothes or puts them in thwe hamper. My makeup, jewely, etc seems to explode everywhere. I have learned to remind my husband of the nooks and crannies before he cleans, such as, “Don’t forget to wipe the floor under the radiator.” And if he does, I let it go and figure that when it’s my turn, I’ll get to it. But, I won’t “fix” it before then b/c I don’t want to diss his efforts. At least he’s willing to help. So, that’s why I don’t clean on a rigid schedule. Hubby isn’t breathing down my neck and complaining about my crap being everywhere…so why be hard on myself and him? Things get put away and eventually cleaned.
Hire a cleaning lady. Now, this may not be financially realistic, but it would probably be beneficial. It would take the backseat cleaning off the husband’s shoulders… and for a price I hear you can get most any one to do anything.
now more realistically… they should talk. A strike seems like it would just make the backseat cleaner more upset. but saying something like “your backseat cleaning really makes me feel inadequate. When you correct me constantly, or come behind me and redo a job I have done – it makes me feel as though there is no reason for me to do it at all. If the job isn’t ever going to be good enough, why set myself up for failure?” (by the way – I’m a backseat parenter.) That is what my husband said to me. It enlightened me to his feelings. It didn’t put an end to the back seating.
I back seat parent, because i have a degree in early childhood education, and i have control issues. my issues are PPD related, when i lost control of my body to the hormones of pregnancy – I exerted control over everything else in my life/ The dogs went to training classes, I created a menu for our home – scheduling a meal a day and a night out, and left overs on sunday… I made a rigid routine for myself and daughter… when I sought out professional help for my crazies, things started to get better.
I have a need for things to be just so, and i feel an overwhelming sense of doom and discontent and frustration and a spiraling feeling of despair when things are not just so. Hubs thinks its terrible, and still struggles to understand it… but with time and patience it is getting better on both ends.
Boy this is so close to home for me. My husband does the cooking, cleaning, laundry because I work two jobs and he wants to feel as if he is doing his share. Does he do the laundry or clean as I would, no way but never,ever, would I complain to him to let him feel inadequate in our marriage. I’ve learned to let go and I’ve even told him how wonderful he is for all he does. In the scheme of life it is really not that important, ever, to take the job someone is doing out of love and in good faith and find endless fault. That fact that they are stepping up to the plate is all the proof you should need of his love and determination to add to your happiness.
is obvious (to me) that this is his excuse for being lazy. So I told him I didn’t care how he arranged the dishes, as long as he put them in the dishwasher. It actually worked! He loads the dishwasher… sometimes.
Has this led you to re-consider your original “obvious” theory?
Do you really think we find the task of putting dishes in a dishwasher so daunting that we are willing to be dismissed as lazy do-nothings to avoid it? Is folding laundry such a demanding task that men will construct elaborate schemes to get out of doing it?
I’ll let folks in on a little secret about men (and probably women, too.) We don’t mind physical labor. We don’t dread the idea of taking dirty dishes from the sink and putting them into the dishwasher. We don’t hate packing up the car for vacation. We don’t mind cutting the grass, putting stuff together, or grocery shopping, etc.
We DO mind the second-guessing that comes with those tasks, and the subsequent arguments. The “Why on earth did you decide to do it this way?” And, along with some regression to historical roles, I think the second-guessing is a root cause of the common complaint that before they got married, the husband cleaned, and afterward, the wife has to do everything.
Hey JohnMcG: I’m not so sure. Although “lazy” is a negative term, I think both spouses can be guilty of it. For instance, yesterday I cleaned most of the house. But I stopped at the bathroom. I usually clean the bathroom. But I was tired. Now, had I said nothing about it, my husband might have rightfully assumed I was avoiding it out of laziness. In reality, I’d hit the wall, so to speak.
He hits his wall, generally, sooner than I hit mine as far as housework is concerned. And he also has this habit (one that I’ve come to find endearing) where he doesn’t finish most jobs that he starts–like not putting a liner in the trash can or not putting the clothes away. I assume this is because my threshold for not having a liner in the can is lower than his, so I always eventually just put the dang thing in there before waiting long enough for him to get around to doing it. With the clothes, I’m guessing that he doesn’t know where they go (they are mine and our daughter’s. He puts his own clothes away).
Anyway, I don’t think it’s always about second guessing. Sometimes it’s a not knowing that it’s needed. Sometimes it’s not getting around to it fast enough. There are tons of reasons. And lazy (ie “too tired” and “don’t feel like it right now” and “if I avoid it, she/he will do it for me”) might be one of them. Of course, none of us can know for sure why something isn’t getting done unless we ask “why?”
Fair enough.
Yes, on a an individual level, people do half-assed jobs for all sort of reasons — being tired, being distracted, simple forgetfulness maybe even some passive-aggression if you don’t think you should have to be doing that work.
But to read some commentary, it seems many women are under the impression that men enter marriage and think, “Man, I hate doing dishes. How I wish I could never have to do them ever again! Aha, I know! I’ll do a half-assed job of it! Then, when my wife calls me on it, I’ll pretend that her criticism is so wounding that I can’t stand to ever do dishes again. Sure, this is bound to lower her opinion of me in her eyes, lead her to be resentful toward me, and increase tension in our marriage, but it’s worth it if I don’t ever have to load the dishwasher again!”
I don’t think this holds up under any kind of scrutiny.
JohnMcG: not necessarily disagreeing, but I just want to say this. You HAVE to read Harriet Lerner’s The Dance of Connection, especially the parts about Over Functioners and Under Functioners. It’s fascinating. It takes this whole argument to an entirely different place.
simplify cleaning, we got those irobot vac’s.
The rule in our house is if you want it done a certain way, you can do it yourself. This is something my darling man appreciates about me, since his ex was constantly trying to control everything he did, cleaning, chopping onions, you name it.
.-= Frugal Kiwi´s last blog ..Svelte Felt Sphinx Minx =-.
I think he could ask her to communicate how she wants it done or suggest she do it herself without resenting him for not doing it her way. He is not her, he cannot read her mind, and it won’t be done how she would like it done if she doesn’t tell him how that is. On the flip side, he might do well to also find out if their are underlying factors such as those suggested in the post. Often times it seems our spousal disagreements are not about the matter at hand but about the things we dare not mention for fear.