He thinks strip clubs are okay. She doesn’t. Who’s right?
A Reader Participation Post
I’m waaay behind on reader questions. I mean, waaaaaaay behind. So I’m going to try to catch up by doing a few this week, starting with this one, which came in nearly a month ago.
Q: My husband believes strip clubs aren’t cheating. I believe they are. He even says that lap dances aren’t cheating, even though he doesn’t want me to dance with other men because he believes that IS cheating. I asked him how having a naked woman sitting on his lap is any different than me dancing fully clothed with a man. He said it is different because I’m initiating it. I don’t like imagining some girl dancing all up on him. The idea of it really bothers me. I told him as much, so he promised to honor my wishes and never go to a strip club or get a lap dance, even though he doesn’t think there is anything wrong with either. I’ve been having trouble handling this. I can’t even bring up the subject without getting mad, and I can’t get rid of the thought of some girl dancing on him. How can I stop thinking about this? I believe I’m the one who needs to deal with this, but I don’t know how. Help! — Can’t Stop Thinking About the Lap Dance
Readers: Do you have advice for Can’t Stop Thinking? This is what I’m thinking:
1. I can’t think of a greater act of love than for your husband to agree not to do something ONLY because you find that something offensive. Honey, this guy loves you. Feel good about it.
2. I know this is going to sound like the strangest advice you’ll ever get, but I highly recommend going to a strip club — with your husband — and asking for a lap dance. It will help you to see that the women are actresses. They have no interest in the men there–other than what’s in their pockets (and I’m talking about money, not lint). Also, for most men, strip clubs serve as a male bonding ritual, very similar to the nature of book club for most women. Of course, there are those slimy old geezers who go because it’s the only way they will ever get a glimpse of a naked lady, but your man doesn’t fall into that category. For more about lap dances, you might want to read what happened when I got one.
3. To stop obsessing about it, do Black and White breathing. Whenever you find those obsessive “I CAN’T BELIEVE HE THINKS STRIP CLUBS ARE NO BIGGIE!” thoughts coming on, breathe them out your nose in the form of black smoke. Alternatively, you can just say to yourself, “Not thinking about that right now” and force yourself to stop. At first, it will be a challenge. Overtime, you’ll get better at it.
Okay, readers, it’s your turn. What should Can’t Stop Thinking do? Remember: be gentle. Be kind. There’s enough room on this blog for differences of opinion, but there is no room for nastiness.
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Tags: lap dances, strip clubs
February 15th, 2010 at 10:02 pm
Strip clubs have amateur nights. Go along and strip in front of a bunch of strange men. If he’s ok with that being not cheating, I guess he really doesn’t think strip clubs are cheating.
Athol Kay: Married Man Sex Life´s last blog ..Dershowitz and Feinstein and the Legally Binding Threesome
February 15th, 2010 at 10:21 pm
This may be one of those “agree to disagree” situations. He doesn’t agree with her point of view, but he is respecting her wishes by not going anymore. A sense of respect and trust is key in these situations.
I personally think that strip clubs are not appropriate for married men to go to, however, I understand that it is “male bonding.” A group of my husband’s friends are single and like to frequent these places. When my husband occasionally hangs out with them, he will go with them. We have set boundaries that he has promised he will follow; which eases my mind.
Deep breathing and thinking through the anxiety may help to ease any discomfort with this issue. As for the dancing with other men, I don’t have any suggestions. That seems like his insecurities and not her.
February 15th, 2010 at 11:19 pm
Although I’ve never been to a strip club, and don’t know whether the lap dance is something that always happens, or that has to be initiated, I think there’s a big difference between looking and touching. Although I used to think strip clubs were just completely skanky and gross, I think that kind of thing is becoming more and more mainstream…for instance, my 18 year old daughter has gone to them a few times with a bunch of her friends (including her boyfriend) and thought it was fun and slightly pathetic, as she thought the women were old (probably my age…!) and that it wasn’t sexy at all, it was just like the women were doing a job that they weren’t that “into,” so, yes, I think there’s definitely something to the idea of going to one to see what they’re all about, if it feels weird to go with your husband, maybe go with some friends? Lap dances, in my mind, are a different story. I read about Alisa’s lap dance adventure, but perhaps as a woman she wasn’t affected quite the same way a man would be…from what I’ve read, they will definitely become aroused, and we all know how much advanced thinking they do when their blood supply is re-routed away from their brains…
Also, what about the idea of watching some couple-friendly porn as a compromise? I’ve never tried it, but I’ve heard nothing but positive stuff from people who have. I think as our marriages progress, we need to stay imaginative, and if you can stay imaginative with your partner, even if it pushes you outside of your comfort zone a bit, it’s probably worth it in the long run. (And we also need to acknowledge that the human body is beautiful, and it’s okay to admire from a far, imho!)
February 15th, 2010 at 11:49 pm
Before you decide whether or not it’s cheating, I STRONGLY recommend going to a strip club (maybe with your husband…) I am not a big fan of my husband looking at the nakedness of anyone besides me, but, after going to a strip club with him, I was enlightened. It was an amazingly liberating experience. I personally do not consider it cheating, but you have to make the decision that you will happy with.
February 16th, 2010 at 12:30 am
I think the fact that he agreed to stop even though he doesn’t think it is wrong is a great start!
I know you’ll have to forgive him and that will take time, but as long as you can trust him to stick to his agreement, then you need to leave the subject alone while you get angry every time you think about it. Once you can be calm about the situation it will be easier to talk it out and get your point through, convey the facts and not the emotion.
I don’t agree that you should go to the strip club, that may be seen as permission for him to go without you.
February 16th, 2010 at 12:58 am
It’s the double-standard that frosts my bun. Let’s turn the tables: she goes to a male strip joint with her girl-pals to bond …..pays a naked man to dance “all up on her” ….and proclaim it to be “not cheating”. If he’s NOT the man I think he is, he would be fine with that. But he doesn’t sound like he’d be fine with it. C’mon–it’s not ok cuz it’s not fair.
But forget the double-standard. By virtue of the obvious sensitive nature of strip clubs & lap dances, you can’t just lump strip-clubbing into the same category as golfing or shopping. It’s in it’s own special “pushing the envelope in any marriage” category and deserves special treatment: if both parties are fine with it–fine; if one party is fine but the other isn’t–not fine; if neither party is fine with it–fine.
So I feel that it’s ok in this “not fine” instance for the offended party to tell the offensive party that if they want to remain in a healthy relationship with them, the offensive party needs to cease the offensive behavior.
This isn’t just her problem. It’s very much his too if he wants to hang on to this marriage.
PS–Am I the only one that doesn’t believe he is going to honor her wishes? I gather that she doesn’t believe him either. No wonder she can’t stop obsessing about it–it seems very obvious to her head, if not to her heart that she has no power and that he is quite likely not going to respect her wishes, at the very least, resent her wishes. Ultimately, she knows that they don’t have the same goals for a healthy relationship. I think she hears a death-knell …….and I think I hear it too.
Laurie´s last blog ..First Ever Cooking Tip
February 16th, 2010 at 2:34 am
Personally, I feel going to a strip club with the guys is not cheating. My husband would go with his friends from work once or twice a month just to hang out and drink. There were other married men in the bunch as well as single ones and according to the owner of the club, they all behaved themselves. I never had a problem with it – I knew where he was and when he’d be home and I trusted him.
Marriage is about trust – if you cannot trust your partner, your marriage doesn’t stand a chance.
I have friends who are strippers, I’ve seen and heard about the lap dance from them. While I personally don’t care for it, it is the opinion of the person involved that counts. Would I count it as cheating ? Honestly, I would have to say that depends on the intention of the man involved. Was he at a bachelor party ? Out with the guys just having fun (someone else bought the dance) ? Or was he there alone, with a purpose (bought his own dance or dances) ? It’s all a matter of intent.
I don’t see strip clubs as cheating, and I have mixed emotions about the lap dance.
But I can honestly say, your man agreeing to honor your wishes means he cares about how you feel, and you need to embrace that and let go of your anger.
At this point it no longer matters that you disagree about whether it’s cheating or not, because it (this “battle”) is over.
As suggested by Alisa, have you ever considered going to a club with him ? Or taking him with you to a Chippendale’s Revue ? That way you both get to see & feel what’s going on “in the moment”.
Just My Opinion.
February 16th, 2010 at 7:07 am
Hey Lauri–there’s a piece of information I have that everyone else doesn’t, so I thought I should mention it here. This argument came about not because he went to a strip club or even mentioned going to one, but because this couple read a post of mine about “talk about what you define as cheating.” When they had that talk, strip clubs came up, and he said he didn’t think it was cheating and she said she did. I totally understand where you are coming from about not believing that he’s being sincere. In most cases, if it was someone arguing with a man who went to these clubs, say, every Friday night, I’d have the same suspicion. But this one is a little different because the conversation has always been a hypothetical for this couple.
Also, I assumed dancing with other men meant her dancing at a night club–like dirty dancing with another guy who happened to be there. It didn’t occur to me that they were talking about a Chippendales situation. Now I’m not sure which it is–or whether it matters from the double standard perspective. But I will say that it would bother me a lot more to know my husband danced with another fully clothed woman than it would to know he got a lap dance at a strip club. The fully clothed woman is someone he can take home and bang (I mean, theoretically. Not that he would). The stripper he can’t. But it’s one of those splitting hairs things for the most part.
In the end it’s about mutual respect.
Alisa Bowman´s last blog ..The Oddest Communication Advice You’ll Ever Read
February 16th, 2010 at 9:34 am
My first thought about this was some advice that i got not so long ago, that the semantics of is it cheating don’t matter as much as “is it hurting some one”…. but then you said he has stopped going to strip clubs – so it seems he gets that. I agree with Alisa, if he said he would not go to one again because it makes you uncomfortable he loves you.
I have always had a stance of “it doesn’t matter where he gets hungry, as long as he comes home for dinner” when it comes to strip clubs and pornographic movies and photos. For me the line is drawn at real person interactions.
However strip clubs fall into a special category for that rule. and they can, because I have been to one (or 2 or 3…) when i was a teen (seems they don’t ID girls in those places) and as a single adult. The women there are, as Alisa said, actresses. Most places have rules that you cannot touch the girls, and if you do you are not so nicely asked to leave. its an experience worth seeing for yourself – if only to understand that the scene inside that strip club is less like a brothel than you think.
As for the burning image of that ‘lap dance’ in your mind…. you could try giving one yourself to replace the thought.
I doubt that you can avoid double standards in this (or many other) situation, comfort levels for men and women are different. I would not be ok with my husband dancing with a woman at a club either – nor would he be ok with me doing the same thing… because another person at a club is there shopping for some fun – while a stripper is looking only for your money and goes home alone at the end of the night (she’s not on the market). But I could go to see a male stripper and it would be ok. ps – have you done that? i personally think that most men’s bodies are gross. the few male strippers I have seen weren’t particularly handsome, and danced in their flaccid states… hmmmpf
Mutual respect and understanding are the goals you should strive for, and it sounds like you are on the way there. good luck!!
February 16th, 2010 at 9:39 am
and as i re read my post, i want to point out that i don’t frequent strip clubs – although it sounds like i do. I was a pretty adventurous teen and single woman, and wanted to know about the things ‘behind closed doors’
now that I know, i could really care less. the stigma is gone
February 16th, 2010 at 10:35 am
I don’t think it really matter who is right. What is important is that he graciously agreed to stop doing it because it bothers her, even though he sees no problem with it. That is a truly loving act. The fact that you disagree on if it’s cheating or not is really not important. He is allowed his own opinions. He did do what is best for your marriage, regardless of those opinions.
I myself do not believe strip clubs or lap dances are cheating. It doesn’t bother me one bit. I have actually taken the advice you gave this reader and gone to strip clubs with my husband. It’s actually more sad than sexy and the girls are in it for the money, not to snag your husband.
Cyndi´s last blog ..Valentine Schmalentine
February 16th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
I don’t think their problem is about cheating/not cheating…I think it is a blow to her sense of security in her marriage to find out that she and her spouse have fundmentally different viewpoints in their value systems. That opens up the door to anxiety about any issue that involves trust. It’s like wondering “if I didn’t see this coming, what else have I missed?”
February 16th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
I don’t think the strip club or the dancing with other men is cheating. Cheating is when a relationship is pursued with someone other than your spouse. He isn’t cheating and neither is she, but it sounds like both need to work on some insecurity issues.
Angelia´s last blog ..Listen! Or not…
February 16th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
I personally don’t like strip clubs, but I don’t think I’d say it was cheating. I have never been, as it is not in my comfort zone and I have no desire to ever go. That being said, I hate the idea of my boyfriend going. He hasn’t gone yet while we’ve been dating, but there are some bachelor parties coming up this Spring and I know I’ll be forced to deal with my feelings about them. Every time I tell someone about my dislike of strip clubs, they assume I am insecure and I don’t trust my boyfriend. The truth is I FULLY trust my boyfriend, and I know he only goes for bachelor parties and “male bonding.” We have talked about this, and we’ve basically agreed to disagree. I don’t think I can ever be completely okay with the idea of him going, and I know he probably won’t NOT go (in a bachelor party setting) to appease me. We have laid some ground rules, like no touching (I don’t think they’re allowed to touch anyway) and no lap dances. While I still don’t like the idea of him going, I do feel like we’ve at least compromised with one another. I know the girls he’ll see there are NOT hot, and not after him…just money. I know he’s coming home to me, and there’s nothing to worry about in terms of cheating, etc. I think my dislike of strip clubs has developed from a very Catholic upbringing (and K-12 private schooling!). I am okay with single guys looking at porn, going to stip clubs, etc., but once they’re in a committed relationship, I don’t see the need for them to look at other naked girls. That’s what their girlfriend, wife, etc. is for! I don’t think I will ever get over the “yucky” feelings that strip clubs bring about in me, but I have accepted that in myself, and realize my feelings may not be the same as my significant other’s. While I think things might be easier if we both agreed on everything (including this topic), I would rather be with my boyfriend and have some uncomfortable “chats” and agree to disagree than not have him at all. When the “bachelor party” season comes upon us, I think I will get a lot of practice with Alisa’s Black and White breathing!
In terms of what to tell “Can’t Stop Thinking about the Lap Dance” -
If her husband’s never gone (or at least hasn’t gone recently) and has promised to respect her feelings and not go, she’s in a pretty good situation in my opinion! I would make sure her husband knew how appreciative she is about him respecting her wishes. I don’t think she has to go to a strip club to “see what it’s like” if she doesn’t want to…that’s a great experience for some, but not everyone should feel like it’s a “must do” to help with these types of feelings. I would say to channel those feelings elsewhere and not to her husband as long as he is sticking to his promise. I would journal about it, talk to a counselor about it, call my girlfriends, etc. He already knows her stance on the topic, and has agreed to respect it. Therefore, I don’t see the need to beat a dead horse. But I think she does need to acknowldge her feelings and work through them.
She sounds a lot like ME!
February 16th, 2010 at 9:22 pm
I personally think the husband has a double standard. He can get a lap dance, which I would suspect to be somewhat sexual for the guy. But she can’t dance on the dance floor fully dressed. But I haven’t been in a dance club for a long time, maybe dancing fully clothed can also be sexual. I’m just so out of touch.
I ask my current husband if when he’s away on business trips what he would do if the guys wanted to go to a strip club. He says he wouldn’t. I’ve learned to trust him. Because he knows how I feel about porn and “titty bars”.
You give good suggestions, Alisa. I just know I couldn’t go into a strip club. I don’t get the allure and I’m not in agreement with strip clubs in general. I’m just an old fashioned gal.
February 16th, 2010 at 9:46 pm
I personally have never been a fan of strip clubs. And I also don’t think guys should be going to them when they’re in relationships. And if you’re with someone special then why do you need some “actress” to grind on you? As for the male bonding reasoning there are plenty of other options like sports and beer. If you want to go chase some tail and have women rub against you then don’t be in a relationship. What most guys don’t think about or care to give any thought is how would they feel if some buff dude in a thong was grinding on their girlfriend/wife. Like they wouldn’t be concerned. If you’re in a relationship where both of you could careless that’s fine – I just don’t believe in double standards in relationships.
Jake´s last blog ..How to Deal with Fights
February 16th, 2010 at 10:02 pm
Jake, I applaud you. Thank you for your non-double standards.
February 16th, 2010 at 10:19 pm
Most men are visual creature- they see a pair of breasts or booty (whatever) and you know they are going to react in a certain manner. That’s the point of going to a club (in most cases!)
I don’t care that strippers think it’s a job or could care less about the men they are suppose to titillate. I don’t want my husband watching another women for that purpose. It may be old fashion but I want to be the only person he’s lusting/desiring after. I don’t want him using another women to get a sexual thrill.
Luckily most of my husband’s friends don’t go to clubs. The few that do – he just doesn’t do those outings with them.
I don’t think going to strip clubs is cheating per se, but it’s something – maybe we need to make up a word for it. I am glad her husband made a decision that was honoring & loving to his wife and their relationship.
February 16th, 2010 at 11:10 pm
I like Jake and his reasoning
I also saw Laurie’s point of view as well.
February 16th, 2010 at 11:28 pm
Hello,
I’m actually the reader that posted this question and I greatly appreciate all the answers. I think my question was kind of confusing. I did in fact mean dancing at like a night club or something of that sort and he has never been to a strip club. I’m not sure how I feel about going with him-but I’m not ruling it out. Besides the fact my husband thinks that some half naked girl dancing on his lap isn’t cheating..it also bothered me that because he didn’t “initiate” it (I guess meaning she was dancing on him..but to me LETTING her do that is initiating) it wasn’t cheating but me dancing with a guy at party/club was cheating. I think he’s bias. He doesn’t want to imagine his wife dancing up on some other guy but wouldn’t mind some girl up on him. Also he wasn’t like “because I respect you I won’t go” I had to TELL him “I consider that cheating-if you go, that to me will mean you cheated.” So it wasn’t like he is not going because he loves me or respects my decision. By the way THIS IS ALL HYPOTHETICAL. This conversation came up after Alisa posted the “talk about what you define as cheating” post.
Thanks for all your guys’ help.
February 16th, 2010 at 11:52 pm
I’ve realized when I had this conversation with him that his opinion wasn’t going to change. So I guess more then wanting to know if its ‘really’ cheating or not-how can I stop obsessing over the thought of some women dancing on my husband and it turning him on? Cause even though I told him if he went I’d consider that cheating and even though he said he won’t go..I still can’t get the thought out. That’s what I need help. Something I can do/think when thoughts of my husband thinking of other women sexually come to my mind.
February 17th, 2010 at 12:14 am
What confuses me, is a man could come up to you and initiate you to a dance… (Now i’ve never been to a strip club) But to my knowledge doesn’t the guy have to initiate the lap dance? I would think he has to approach someone and ask unless someone else does it for them? Either way, I don’t think its right at all for a man to throw money at another woman b/c shes basically naked w/ her goodies in his face. Yes, they may be actresses basically and only after the money, to me tho, that doesn’t take away from the fact that he is enjoying looking at other naked women. Try going to a male strip club or to see Chippendales.. Or bring it up at least and ask how it would make him feel to have some guy rubbing his man goodies in your face and on you.
My man has told me he’d like to take me to get a lap dance just b/c he’d like to watch. Maybe you can compromise, go w/ him to the strip club one night, and have him go w/ you dancing. As someone who enjoys dancing myself, I personally do not care to dance w/ another man when I’m committed in a relationship, however, my man understand I enjoy dancing and going to the club, and has never said I couldn’t.
I hope this helps in some way. I understand that it can eat you alive basically. But it does seem he’s being rather hypocritical on the matter as he’s looking at naked women and you’re just dancing w/ a fully dressed man. But is awesome for him to at least give it up in respect of how it makes you feel. I wouldn’t say its cheating to go, but if it upsets you, he needs to respect that, which you’re lucky you have one that does. I would definitely suggest following a lot of what Alisa says in: Don’t talk about it when you’re upset. Go through these comments, find the best way to deal with it, and discuss it at the most calm, best time you can.
February 17th, 2010 at 12:51 am
I definitely can understand jealousy(let’s just call it what it is) over the idea of some young cutie dancing with the one man who has promised to be your rock for the rest of your life. My husband and I actually have gone to strip clubs together and I like to think of it as a ‘warm-up’. I love it as a different method of foreplay. I can see the same theory working in a regular dance club too. If it is doing something for him sexually, then let him come home and take care of business! The only problem arises if he isn’t coming home. It doesn’t seem as though you suspect any foul play, so my best suggestion is to let him know if he is all ‘excited’ from the club, that he’s got a woman at home who can’t wait to help him out!
My husband and I discussed a threesome lately and while I thought I might be interested, I got an image of him with another woman that I can’t seem to shake. This isn’t even something that has happened and I am horrified!! I have realized that a lot of these feeling have come from confidence issues I have though, and it’s not his fault. All he can do is reassure you that you’re the only one and let you know your skills in the sack keep him coming back!
February 17th, 2010 at 12:54 am
OH and I totally feel that not turning someone away IS the same as initiating. They both have the same result.
February 17th, 2010 at 1:45 am
Kyle, I understand the threesome thing. I personally have never had one, but if I ever to the terms have already been laid. He WILL NOT touch her, it would strictly be her and I and him watching touching me only. He agreed, whats hotter than watching your woman w/ another woman? That should be satisfying enough in my opinion.
February 17th, 2010 at 3:56 am
I love it when you post “controversial” topics related to cheating. The responses are quite often numerous and swinging through the pendulum. I will be back to post my reflections as it is 2am, I am sleepy, I have not yet read through the pendulum-swinging comments AND I have a letter to write my husband.
February 17th, 2010 at 7:51 am
But it’s like i’m only 19…so it’s not that he gets to go get a dance with some “young cutie”…just some other girl. It’s not like I’m older, losing sex appeal and don’t still turn him on or anything.
February 17th, 2010 at 9:17 am
My suggestion – go to the strip club with him and watch him have a lap dance. Then both of you go to see the Chippendales perform and get your own dance. Talk afterwards and see if his perspective doesn’t change… or maybe yours does.
February 17th, 2010 at 10:16 am
I’ve been to a bunch of strip clubs: women dancers, men dancers, even gay dancers. The vibe at all of these places are completely different. Even from women to women dancing clubs are different. I know I’ve been to places I would never want to go back to, nor have anyone I date step foot into nastyville.
I agree with Laurie- it’s the double standard that’s uncool. Women at strip clubs generally don’t give lap dances for free. It’s how they make money. The payment is the initiation- because they may come up to incise for free, but they’ll move right along if the cash doesn’t come out. And if the husband isnt secure enough to see his wife just dance with another guy (now grinding on him or getting DOWN is another story)… he just seems to be really insecure. I tend to believe what’s right for one is right for the other. If he’s not willing to let you square dance or whatever dance you want to do with another guy (especially if you’re guy can’t dance, and I’ve had a few of those) it just doesn’t seem fair that he can go to strip clubs with almost naked girls. I think there needs to be a compromise on both parts to come a little closer to the middle for each other.
February 17th, 2010 at 10:52 am
I kinda like this question. I’ll be honest with you, strip clubs were never my thing in the first place, and after my wife and I married she made the same request, which was easy for me to do. That being said, I don’t know that I would agree that watching a stripper is cheating. Guys are much more visuallly stimulated than women are. If I guy see a beautiful women walking down the street, or at the beach, he’s going to look. I hate to say it, but that isn’t morality, that’s biology. Fantasies are normal, and I think everyone has them. That being said, I think it would be wrong for him to go when he knows how it will make you feel. Respect in marriage is important, so I would say that it would have been okay for him to go before you had the discussion, but now is a different story.
As for the lap dance, totally different story. There is a BIG difference between looking and touching, or having someone touch you. In my opinion, that does cross the line. Not really much else to say about that.
As to your anger about the issue, well, I agree with some of the previous comments, if he has agreed not to go, and you trust him to keep his word, then I would try to focus on that. I know in some of the discussions I have had with my wife, even after 11 years of marriage, I have been surprised with her responses, and she with mine. After a lot of years together, I often think that we have talked about every topic under the sun, that I know her inside and out, and I am always surprised when I find out that we have very different view points, and she always seems just as shocked. If you trust him, then try to put that foremost in your mind when you start getting angry and maybe it will help alleviate your anger.
Oh, almost forgot, as for the double standard, I think that the two of you are maybe focusing on two different things. You seem to be worried about his where his mind is going sexually, but his mind is where you might be going emotionally. Watching someone dance naked is a fantasy, but dancing with someone, touching them, looking into their eyes, feeling their hands on you, is more of an emotional thing. I’m not sure if you see it that way, but as a guy, I do get where he is coming from. Again, not saying that looking at naked women is necessarily right, but dancing with someone fully clothed is a totally different ball game.
February 17th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
So I posed this question to my husband to see what his thoughts were and if we thought the same thing (we’ve disagreed in the past on what consitutes cheating, so I was curious). We both agreed that for us going to a strip club, getting a lap dance, and dancing with someone (nightclub style) is not cheating. For us. The big issue for me would be honesty about it. If he says to me, the guys and I are going to a strip club Friday and I’m probably going to get a lap dance…and I say ‘okay’. Then he comes home and tells me about his experience and is open and honest about it, that’s okay… But if he goes to a strip club with the guys, doesn’t tell me he’s going, doesn’t tell me after he went and I find out about it, then that becomes an issue. Because if you are doing something (especially something sexual or emotional) that you feel you need to hide from your spouse, then you shouldn’t be doing it to begin with. My sister-in-law actually jokes that her husband can sleep with another woman, as long as he calls her first. Obviously she isn’t really okay with him sleep with another woman, but the idea is that you should ask/talk to your spouse about stuff before you go and do it…don’t just assume you know how they would feel about it.
If there is something that I just can’t get out of my head, like she is describing here…I often write about it. I’ll just let all my emotions out on a piece of paper. Then I’ll throw the piece of paper in the trash. It just gives me a chance to really figure out how I’m feeling and why, and to know that your feelings are never ‘wrong’ – it’s just how you feel.
February 17th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
1. Great that your “cheating blog” got the conversation going between them. which means: they are talking and sharing ideas
2. Double standards are just that. Double standards. I bet Chippendale would be an interesting comeback for her.
3. I too have gone to strip joints with male friends and its entertainment whilst you drink. I actually felt sorry for them. The air conditioning is usually jacked up and they must freeze their butts off. Lap dances? YUCK talk about health issues!
4. I too believe that it is honouring that they both voiced their opinions and chose not to act out of respect to the other.
Maureen´s last blog ..
February 17th, 2010 at 3:47 pm
Oh yeah well ok ….I took it way too seriously! This was “theoretical”. Oops.
Which is interesting because now I feel rather differently–it seems to me that it’s healthy to talk about theoretical differences in your relationship.
I can see though, still, how it would be hard to reconcile a difference of opinion between you & yours on this subject Jen. I mean *scary* what if it doesn’t stay theoretical? And is it possible that he thinks about *gulp* other women?
But it feels right to remember, as Alisa said, that so much depends on mutual respect.
For me, mutual respect in my own relationship(s) is hugely dependent on confidence in myself + confidence in my relationship.
And those things are often hard won and take time. A little more time perhaps than your nineteen years has given you ……so Jen give it time and keep talking!
Laurie´s last blog ..Catch-Up Week
February 18th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
WOW i can understand why this woman is mad about her husband going to strip clubs.I am on her side I do think strip clubs are sort of cheating.Whey would a happy married man feel the need to go see other naked women when he has one of his own at home.I would feel so bummy if my husband ever went to a strip club…i dont even like when he goes to a bar.!!
But as far as the excuse of male bonding time….i dont belive that bull****!
If you want to have some male bonding then you would go to a basketball game or something like that not look at naked women.!!
sorry thats just my opinion!
February 28th, 2010 at 7:05 pm
Alright. I have finally made my return.
This topic lingered with me pretty heavily. I have discussed it with a variety of people in an effort to see beyond my view. Though those conversations were enriching and offered me an alternative perspective, my stance changed not. The issue of strip clubs for me is sexual entertainment of which I am not apart. I just do not feel comfortable with the idea of another woman entertaining my husband’s fantasies. I don’t like the idea of a naked body that is not mine being before him dancing and bending and moving and shaking. For me, sexual expression as an umbrella is significantly intimate and my preference is to have everything under that umbrella shared exclusively between my husband and myself. Does that mean I would venture to a strip club with him since it would be a shared experience? Possibly, but but it is highly improbable. After all, I don’t imagine a man enjoying the experience of a strip club in the presence of his partner as much as he would in her absence. That doesn’t mean it can’t happen; it just means I can’t wrap my brain around it. The bottom line is I think cheating or not cheating is a moot point; the real issue is whether or not your partner knows this is your position — and whether or not your partner will respond to your position in a way that you deem satisfactory.
March 29th, 2010 at 11:08 am
Hi,
I am having a similiar problem. I hate the idea of my man looking at other women but acknowledge that it has something more to do with my insecurities. My boyfriend and I had a long spell where we were doing long distance, and we technically “weren’t dating” because it had been so long since we actually saw eachother, but I wanted to know as soon as he did something with another girl. Eventhough we weren’t dating we started talking like we were dating again and even having internet sex, I felt like it was a big deal because I thought it was the only action he was getting and I was the only naked girl he was having sexual interaction with. Slowly we started calling eachother a couple again. The whole time he swore he hadn’t done anything with another girl. I thought it was romantic that even though we weren’t dating and he was free to mess around with other women that he said he hadn’t, and didnt want to see or touch another girl but me, so that strongly effected my decision to go back into a relationship with him. But then I found out from a friend that he had been to a strip club 5 times, once alone, and once a friend bought him a private lap dance. He touched her naked body and I can’t get the image out of my head. Or the fact that he defended himself saying that it didn’t count because someone bought the lapdance for him. I can’t believe he wasn’t the one to tell me. I know he wasnt dating me so he wasn’t obligated to tell me, but I feel if he was going to mess around on internet with me he would be honest and let me know where he stood as far as other female contact goes. He said he would have told me eventually but didnt think it was a big deal since he was single and it wasn’t “real” because it was just a stripper. In my mind he lied though, even if he was single I specifically asked him if he did anything with anyone else and we talked on a regular basis the whole time we were apart. It just made me feel silly about feeling all sexy on skype when he was seeing real live in person naked ladies. The fact that he didn’t tell me makes me so nervous. He has never kept anything from me, I really wish he had been the one to tell me. Am I blowing it out of proportion? I didnt even know what a lapdance consisted of, I had to ask him about the details, i didnt know men were allowed to touch or that the woman was naked. Should I go to a strip club? Is it really not a big deal? I get sick and start crying when I think about it, he says he will never go again, should that be enough?
June 11th, 2010 at 5:18 am
Unless your husband is spending the family food money at the strip club, I wouldn’t make such a big deal out of it. They have become an institution and a real conversation piece for the guys. It gives them macho status.
marriage therapy´s last blog ..Making Beeswax Candles
July 22nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
How would you feel if your husband was traveling alot with male coworkers visiting
strip clubs and then going to bars and picking up women and bringing them back to their apartment they were renting for the time they were out of town. My husband
said he was just looking and he never brought a woman back to his room. He never told me they were going to strip clubs. He said he knew I wouldn’t like it. I found out
by looking in his wallet for cash and found a VIP card to a strip club. I confronted him and he came clean. He said if I would not have found out he would have continued to go to strip clubs while out of town. How do I trust him?