How Do You Define Cheating?
Earlier this week, I ran a poll based on a marital argument between a reader and her husband. She’d found sexually explicit emails sent back and forth between her husband and another woman. She’d defined this as cheating. He didn’t.
I asked you what you thought.
Nearly 160 of you took the time to cast a vote, and 23 of you commented. Your views were nearly unanimous: definitely cheating.
At the time, I withheld my personal views because I didn’t want to bias the poll results or comments. My thoughts on the matter are as follows. Arguing about whether or not this constitutes cheating is like President Clinton arguing about whether or not he had “sexual relations with that woman.” President Clinton defined “sexual relations” as penile penetration. The rest of us? Our definition included a lot more than that.
This is a similar semantic argument. The husband defines “cheating” by intercourse (I can only assume). The wife defines “cheating” much more broadly. We could take sides in this semantic argument. Or we could do something different.
We might suggest that the couple is arguing about the wrong topic.
Who cares whether or not it’s cheating? What matters is that the wife was hurt by what she discovered. Hurt is universal. Pain is universal. Disappointment is universal. Lack of trust is universal. We all define these sensations the same way. When she tells her husband, “This hurts,” he can’t come back with a “no it doesn’t hurt, let me tell you about what hurts.” No, he can’t redefine what hurt means to her. This is not something he can argue about.
So rather than continually telling him that he “cheated” and him continually telling her that he did no such thing, I believe she might be better served by telling him:
- Thinking about what you did makes me sick to my stomach. It hurts that badly.
- I don’t trust you anymore.
- I don’t feel like I know who you are.
- I don’t feel loved by you.
He can’t argue with any of that. It just is.
I also think this couple—and the rest of us, too—would benefit greatly by talking about what makes them feel uncomfortable and threatened, because that’s what we’re really talking about when we’re talking about “cheating.” And we all need to have this discussion, because some people feel exceptionally uncomfortable and threatened by things that others think of as no big deal. Talk about:
- Masturbation
- Porn
- Strip clubs
- Hooters and other places like it
- Wet T-shirt contests and mud wrestling
- Flirting
- Platonic touching of the opposite sex (cheek kisses, hugs, handholding)
- Emotional attachment to members of the opposite sex
What threatens you? What doesn’t? You might find that something might threaten you that does not threaten your spouse. Discuss this. Civilly. Openly. Warmly. If you draw the line at porn and your spouse does not, this does not mean that you are a prude and he has a sexual addiction. It just means that you are different. It just means that your threshold of discomfort is lower than his.
And for whichever one of you has a higher threshold of discomfort, consider what is more important to you. Is it more important to you to hold onto this threatening object (whether it be porn or an emotional affair) and continually threaten and hurt your partner? Or is it more important to you to honor your partner and give up that thing that your partner finds so hurtful and threatening? It’s a choice. Which choice will you make?
It seems like an easy choice to me. What do you all think?
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Tags: cheating, infidelity
January 14th, 2010 at 10:05 am
Alisa: you are so insightful. You always astonish me with your wisdom. While I was one of the people who voted “definitely cheating,” I think you make an excellent point here: instead of arguing over semantics, which is a never-ending argument, it makes more sense to argue over what can’t be denied – that his actions hurt her.
I would still call it cheating, though.
Kathleen Quiring´s last blog ..What’s in a Name? “Natural Family Planning” versus “Fertility Awareness Method”
January 14th, 2010 at 11:15 am
I had to deal with my husband’s addiction to porn, available suddenly for free online. I found it impossible to stomach. I had never discussed porn with him because my reaction took me by surprise, and I never thought it would become such an issue. I felt diminished, and angry that my husband was supporting an industry I abhorred.
Yes, best to discuss things like this ahead of time.
I suggested he consider that the young girls online could be his granddaughter, kidnapped and photographed against her will.
I don’t think this was what finally made him stop, but he did.
Alexandra´s last blog ..Thoughts & Conversation in the Woods of Wellfleet
January 14th, 2010 at 11:41 am
I guess I feel like if what you’re doing is something you feel the need to hide from your spouse, it’s not good. I think most of us (all of us?) know deep down what’s good, what’s right for our relationship, and what would be hurtful to our spouse and our marriage. It’s just having the guts to listen to that voice.
January 14th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
I think that you make an excellent point. Arguing over definitions and details of what is and isn’t cheating is a round about argument that will never end.
Some times its just so much easier to argue, than discuss feelings. Easier. Not more productive. We all need to work in marriages on communication, i think that communication and trust go hand in hand – and those are the fundamentals for loving, and for intimacy (mental, and physical intimacy)
In the end it really always comes down to choices…. the choice to respect one another, the choice to hurt or not hurt your partner, the choice to stay or go, the choice to nurture or destroy a relationship….
Its often harder to look at what your actions and choices will do before you do them, and then harder yet to live with the aftermath…. what one ripple of a butterfly’s wings can change….
January 14th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
I agree with both Kathleen and Marissa. You are very insightful and I also thought of President Clinton while I was reading the story from the previous post. I also found that as I have been married, things that I thought would not have bothered me do and things that used to bother me don’t. I think having a conversation with your spouse/partner every so often would also help in having a healthy and happy marriage. Thank you Alisa for giving us the opportunity to be able to come to our own conclusions on this subject matter! I like seeing how people are different and the same when it comes to the opinions of the heart.
January 14th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
I think if my relationship with my husband is good, we are enjoying each other, fights and angry discussions are to a minimum, we are having sex regularly, etc. then I don’t really care if he is looking at on-line porn (to use an example). I get annoyed by porn and masturbation if we are not being intimate, b/c I feel like porn has become an easy substitue for intimacy.
January 14th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
You make great points, Alisa. Exactly, arguing about semantics isn’t the way to go. Sharing her feelings is. But if he doesn’t care about her feelings, he won’t stop what he’s doing. And that’s truly the point, in my opinion. Having dealt with a husband with a porn habit, no matter how much I told him it bothered me, he didn’t stop. I was one of the reasons for our divorce.
The gal has to decide if this is what she can have in her relationship. I know I couldn’t.
When I met my current husband he has the SI Swimsuit Calendar hanging in his home office. I said I wasn’t comfortable with it and asked that he remove it. He did. Thankfully. Had he not, we would not have gotten married. I was in my early 40s at the time and just couldn’t or didn’t want to compete with 20-somethings in swimsuits (and I was in damn good shape). Nor did I think it was right that he was looking at pictures of something he was never going to have, instead of looking at what was right in front of him. The amazing thing, is I’d gotten the idea that even the SI Swimsuit Calendar was “porn” by a male boss a few years before this.
January 14th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
As someone who lost most all communication with her husband and felt disgusted at the thought of porn or other not “normal” sexual things. We lost each other, it came hard to talk about anything with him even everyday life.
A lot has happened between now and then and we are now rebuilding and trusting. You have to feel comfortable with each other, you have to talk, you have to trust, you have to be able to be yourselves with each other.
You made excellent point, whether it is defined as cheating or not, if it hurts it hurts.
January 14th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
So well said!! My husband and I talk about these things a lot and I’ve actually said to him to let me know if he cheats so I can go ahead and leave him.
Casey, I’m just going to echo what you say. For us, trust and communication is at the heart of everything and we definitely try to discuss issues we have and issues our friends have and how we would want each other to deal with them. I can’t imagine losing it and having to rebuild it, but good for you both for working so hard!
January 14th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Almost – Thank you! You shouldn’t judge anyway BUT it’s not ok at all when you start judging eachother. How can you spend your life with someone, raising a family and the whole time be judging them for everything they do?
January 14th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
I would hesitate to lump all “husbands” into the same category when it comes to cheating, which you narrowly avoided, as there are so many “mixed” couples out there. I would rather suggest that it is often one partner in a couple that holds a more narrow scope than the other partner. Again, as a serial flirt, I was often the one that was accused of indiscretions. However, my perspective has always been that if I am not happy with my partner at the time, I end that relationship BEFORE moving into another one. In my humble opinion, “open” relationships are just excuses… to be non-committed. okay, I’ve submitted my two cents.
January 14th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
Absolutely well-said, Alisa! Hurt is hurt, disapointment is disapointment–no arguing with that. I agree that we all have different definitions of cheating and I think opening up a dialogue with our partners/spouses about how we individually define cheating is very important. It’s things like that that make your blog such a service and a help to others. Thank you for that. I think that trust is huge and so is respect, and while hurt is universal, it can take YEARS to re-build trust and respect, and without the two, you don’t have much going for you. The act itself–looking at porn, going to strip clubs, even having sex with someone else–isn’t really the problem, in my opinion at least. The real problem is the reprocussions it has, the trust it breaks and the hurt it delivers. Again, I wish this couple the very best, however they choose to handle things from here on out. And again, Alisa, very, very well said!
Many Blessings,
-Sarah Liz
January 14th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
I have to disagree with you here on one point. In this scenario the husband absolutely knew he was cheating as evidenced by his efforts to hide it from his wife.
Having said that, I do absolutely agree with everything else you said. Communication is key. It is possible that he will still deny her feelings but that does not negate them.
January 14th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
My husband watches porn when I don’t feel like having sex, and it doesn’t bother me as long as it’s not substituting me.
He does have one of those plastic vagina things though, which can bug me a little bit.
As for the couple in the scenario – Cyndi is on the money; if he didn’t think he was doing something wrong, why did he hide it?
January 14th, 2010 at 8:59 pm
Just because you try to ‘hide’ something from your spouse is not an indication of guilt. It depends on the circumstances. If you are planning a surprise party is the obvious example but I can think of a time when a close friend had confided in me about something. She asked me not to tell anyone. About a month later, my friend was talking to my wife and was surprised to learn that I had not told her. When she asked me why I did not tell her, I said because you asked me not to tell anyone. Her response was that when she said that she didn’t mean her. I personally take confidences very seriously. Now if it is something that is going to affect my wife, then that is a different circumstance. I have information with respect to my clients that I can not tell my wife, again it has nothing to do with her.
With respect to is this person cheating or not, I believe that is really subjective. While most will agree that physical intimacy is cheating hands down, I have friends that feel that watching porn is cheating, flirting is cheating, being in a room alone with the opposite sex is cheating. I had one friend who felt that if his girlfriend was even to think about another guy, they were ‘emotionally cheating’.
Alisa is correct when she asks the question “How do you define cheating?” and that cheating is not the issue. What is important is that you and your partner understand each other and you communicate. The issue is not cheating, it is being aware of your partners feelings and how you respect them and their feelings.
Michael Dundas´s last blog ..Authorized to shutdown the data center, update
January 14th, 2010 at 9:35 pm
I don’t have much else to add that hasn’t already been said. But this is a very interesting discussion. Maybe “cheating” isn’t even the right word to focus on here. Maybe it’s more “dishonesty” or “disrespect” that is the issue here. I agree with Sarah Liz… it’s not so much the act that is the “problem,” it’s what the act does to the relationship.
My husband and I have the philosophy of “Ask yourself, if roles were reversed, would you feel uncomfortable with me doing this?” It’s a little thing, and our levels of discomfort are different. But I think we know each other well enough to be able to answer whether we think it would bother each other.
This is such a touchy area too because, as others have eluded to, something that would seem very small and not a big deal when things are flowing nicely in your marriage can seem enormous when you’re having an “off” period in your marriage. Communication… it’s amazing how much talking can bring about.
Great post, Alisa!
January 15th, 2010 at 4:15 am
I believe cheating comes down to the expectations of the individual, and the respect and trust they afford their partner in the marriage. Every body happens to be different, and we cant also expect that we will be the same people we were when we got married.
To me cheating would be something that involved an emotional connection that went beyond flirting, and was carried out in secret, when you are well aware you’re concealin something from your partner
January 15th, 2010 at 5:25 am
I used to think porn was fine; after all, that’s what magazines and TV tell us all the time. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that fantasizing about someone or something doesn’t hurt anyone.
Now I’m not so sure. My husband loves porn–to the point where we go weeks without sex at times, but he looks at porn on a daily basis. And every once in awhile he suggests we try something new–something I’m sure he’s seen in some porn video. Some people would applaud that and say, “Hey! That’s great! You’re spicing up your sex life!”
But when we try something new–especially after we’ve gone weeks without–I can’t help but spend the whole time mentally comparing my actions in bed to the girl in the porn video, and wondering whether my husband is doing the same.
I used to love sex. Really love it. Now I fake it most of the time, just to get it over and done with.
January 15th, 2010 at 5:47 pm
Alissa, girlfriend, you are the bomb. This is such an important post/subject/conversation. I think you are so right that they were arguing about the wrong thing. And I fear that that particular marriage may be on the rocks. It’s hard to talk about all this stuff. I have to say, I would have a huge problem if my husband were addicted to porn. I don’t think I could handle that. Now the next question: when does a person decide enough is enough already and it’s time to get divorced?
Jennifer Margulis´s last blog ..Photo Shoot With Christopher Briscoe
January 16th, 2010 at 11:50 pm
Good timing reading this one! My husband and I just had a similar argument. He’s been long distance friends with an ex-girlfriend until we started dating. We’ve been married for 5 years and they have rarely spoken since then. We’re planning to take a muli-state vacation and he wants to stop and visit this women. She’s engaged to marry and he wants to meet the man and take them out to dinner. My question was why. This women and I have never met or spoken. Why would I want to spend an evening having dinner and drinks with her and her family. This all seems extremely weird to me. He assures me that nothing is going on, that he just wants to see an old friend. But something about this just doesn’t sit well with me. I don’t feel like this women is any competition, but I my gut tells me that this will be bad for our marriage.
January 18th, 2010 at 3:05 am
Once again, you nailed it. What’s the point of arguing obsessively about semantics when the point is how one spouse feels as a result of the other spouse’s behaviors?
IMO, hand holding is NOT platonic — unless it is when the husband is holding the hand of a female relative and has no intentions of making sexual advances toward her.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:13 pm
Yes I do also think that you hit the nail on the head.
Every marriage has that line in the sand, and it’s crucial that both partners/spouses understand exactly what that line is. This way it’s completely clear and there are no mistakes about it.
I can sit here high and mighty and say that the guy knew that what he was doing was completely wrong, but then again, maybe he didn’t. Maybe he thought it was ok. That’s why it’s so important that married couples make that decision, or else the decision might make them.
While I’m not a big fan of the cliche counselors “when you did this, I felt this” sort of communication, I think in this instance you’re actually extremely right on. By suggesting that she say “what you did makes me sick to my stomach” “I don’t trust you anymore” will actually paint a picture of the pain that his actions has caused her, and will surely make him think twice before doing it again.
But I think that she should also take it a step further, and make sure she explains exactly why. For instance, “looking at you makes me sick to my stomach, because what you were sharing were intimate thoughts with that other woman, and those intimate thoughts should be reserved for our marriage and to strengthen our marriage”… which is more specific.
I could go on forever, but I think you’ve made it quite clear. I think it’s important to understand why it’s so vital that we draw the line, and make sure that both parties know that line before an emotional affair, or even a physical affair has the chance to happen.
Jason T. Nelson
May 1st, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Before I offer any kind of statement I must point out that I have not read anyones post as it may cause my thought process to become different.
Having said that, I must also point out that I really like the way this Alisa person thinks, and identifies problems, more at their core than what they seem to be at face value.
Now, I personally think that sometimes it may be possible to actually feel more betrayed by thinking that your spouse is cheating with their mind, or heart, more than physically committing the act.
Committing an act of a sexual nature sometimes is simply physical, sometimes happening in a very brief moment of weakness.
We all know that we should not allow ourselves to ever get into a situation where we may have a moment of weakness, but I guess it happens.
Of course it will usually utterly destroy a marriage, but some people I have known have worked through this.
On the other hand, knowing that your spouse has lost interest/respect/love for you in such a degree that their mind or heart is with someone else may possibly be the most hurtful thing a person could feel.
One person is actually using time, and effort to mentally explore the company of some other person, that they are actually, physically familiar with, on an ongoing basis.
The Bill Clinton reference was pretty good but I tend to feel more that it was nothing more than a BJ (for lack of a politically correct term).
Hillery was and is his #1, he appears to just adore her, and being an aging man who, by the way, was approached by a woman half his age, I believe caused such a moment of weakness that he had no reserve left, at that moment.
In my own relationship, my wife is willing to actually give me the “Monika Lewinski” treatment if I feel like looking at porn, which I don’t, I think it’s kinda gross, but the point is, that she WOULD NOT be okay if I were exploring these feelings with someone I actually knew. It’s no longer anonymous.
For example, one day I came home from work to find my wife entertaining another man in my house.
She explained that he was like her bi-sexual brother, eh, yeah, I am not okay with that.
She has agreed to not have him over to the house anymore, but insists that she will continue to see him away from the house.
The point is, I understand what it feels like.
In then end, I am going to totally agree with Alisa, excellent job!
July 15th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
What counts as cheating?! Well everyone has their own definition as to what cheating really is . . .To me it was the full on physical act of sex but this past 2 weeks have changed the meaning of cheating for me. I didn’t know/feel that the emotional/private aspects of my marriage would ever leave my husband and I. In fact, I brought our kids up telling them, “what happens in this house stays in this house.” But I didn’t think it would be my husband that would cross more then one line. He has always told all of us how he can’t stand a person who lies on top of it all he has become the biggest liar. I am sure that it began innocent but when a female co-worker began divulging her private marriage life to my husband he did the same with her. Eventually leading into them having their lunch breaks in his car int he parking lot of work. Next them exchanging cell numbers and him hiding it all from me only telling me half truths. My husband approaching me to talk about our relationship and how he was feeling about our marriage. next him talking more to the co-worker about us . . .Them “making out” in his car at work right after we said we were going to work harder and be more attentive.
I know that I am not getting the whole truth . . .I might never get the whole truth! But cheating emotionally, physically, and giving everything that you have ever asked for in the relationship (truth, no half-truths, communication and transparency) all to a complete stranger after 22 years of marriage is cheating in my book. . . .any comments will be appreciated. Thxs for listening/reading